DM Like human beings (4 levels + DQ), consciousness has many elements to it. Like human beings this includes elements that have been around since the big bang, i.e. DQ and then the first level. Evolution adds the extra levels and sublevels that have more limited histroies. Looked at like this I'd suggest a key element of consciousness that we might call DQ has always been around.
[Krimel] You still have consciousness growing out of many elements; not as the source of elements. For the Taoists in the house this makes consciousness one of the 10,000 things. [DM] Seems to me some suggestions that something like consciousness is required for the cosmos to exist is a slightly unclear attempt to see that there is more to evolution than SQ we need the DQ and chance-events-actions-felts-qualia-qualities may have more of a history in cosmic evolution than full blown human consciousness but may have these felt or active qualities involved. [Krimel] I am not sure what consciousness, much less what it is like. James says it is a process that arises from the interaction of physiology and the environment. [DM] As Pirsig says does the leaping electron have some kind of motivational or timing aspect. Who knows, I know yoiu prefer to say chance, but you cannot rule out some internal aspect to the jumping jelly beans! [Krimel] You can say that all the electrons in a cloud rush to earth in bolt of lightning because they love to party hardy with their sisters on the ground. But this offers nothing to our understanding of electricity. Yes, I prefer to stick with chance until something better is offered. [DM] In our experience consciousness falls into mechanism/habits rather than vice versa. Does DQ preceed SQ? Does DQ jump, whilst SQ is an acquired unconsciousness. [Krimel] If by 'falls' you mean 'disappears into', yes. We practice so as to acquire mechanisms/habits that overcome the need for the experience of consciousness. We drive and type and walk without conscious effort at least in the sense of attentive focus. DQ and SQ coexist. They are the complementary perceived aspects of Quality. I suspect consciousness resides in the perception or visa versa. If by unconscious you mean "not conscious" I would applies that to pretty much everything. As far as we can tell everything that is not unconscious calls earth's orbit home. If you mean mental activities that do not involve attentive awareness, things get pretty interesting. The bodily activities moderated by the brain include quite a spectrum, from the heart beats to T-cells. And all of them can be affected by experience. Even the immune system responds to classical conditioning techniques. This kind of conscious, even in elementary form, emerges from and is affected by interaction in the environment. [DM] No way to clearly decide I'd suggest. [Krimel] Russell would call that a logical atom. I would flip a coin and call it tails. I don't think Russell would have a problem with that. Why do you? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
