Ron,
I changed the name of this thread due to what we
are beginning to discuss at the bottom. Maybe if we
could dig deep into this. I find this is where the
intellect is working, actually applying itself in
society, where it seems to be possible not to have a
pipe-dream, but a full fledge application is on the
verge? I don't know, these may be old memories or
something not just lurking in me, but in others. I
remember saying something was going to happen, as it
did in the 60's, 12 years ago to some friends, and
they all said I hope so. Well... it must be still
lurking, I'm sure. What do you think? Read on for
more details in the comments I gave to your post.
> Ron:
> Hello SA,
> Ever listen to Dead can Dance?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Vb5y3RLUE&NR=1
SA: Nop, I don't think I have. I'm listening to this
one now. Wow! Now this is good, very good!
Ron:
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tluogv9EGTQ&feature=related
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Furfjeove0M&feature=related
Ron:
> you mentioned "Nirvana started it all"
SA: Yeah, that's what my cousin who is now 19 years
of age said. They, my two cousins of the same uncle,
are artistic. One plays guitar in a band and does
some small shows. The other is very computer
oriented. Can break a computer down, and build it
again, add all kinds of hardware, and such.
Ron:
> I remember what they started was a reversion back to
integrity
> in artistic expression. Seattle (at that time) had
> a large underground society, the "U" district had
> a counter culture all it's own, the indie record
> label sub pop was central to the scene.
SA: Ah, yes. The Indie record, I remember that now.
I'm wondering if Austin, TX has a large underground
society at the moment... but I don't know. I know of
some friends that moved to that area, and go to many
different shows.
Ron:
> On a lark they created a haight -ashberry buzz in
the English rags
> the summer of 91 while Nirvana was on a European
> tour.
SA: What is "haight-ashberry buzz"? I've heard of
this.
Ron:
> They left as no-bodies and returned a national
> sensation.
> I met Dave Grohl at a party who was just amazed at
> all the Bullshit hype.
SA: Ron, you've been around.
Ron:
> Soundgarden had worked for 2 years to gain an
> underground
> National following and Nirvana exploded into world
> wide acclaim
> Literally over night. Motherlovebone was picking up
> the pieces
> After their front man O.D,'d, they soon picked up
> eddie
> Vedder to form pearljam after the joint tribute of
> Temple of the dog.
> Drugs were very prevalent in the Seattle scene at
> that time.
> I remember being invited to acid parties and
> watching business
> Men stuck in I-5 traffic in the morning lighting up
> a bowl.
> Drugs alcohol and coffee is what kept Seattle moving
> In it's soggy locale, the suicide capitol of the
> u.s.
SA: Hmmm, very interesting. I've listened to some
MotherLoveBone, your bringing back some memories. You
know what's funny - coffee - Starbucks started in
Seattle, correct? Seattle's Best, another coffee
brand. What's up with the soggy locale, a deep
spirit, inward looking, maybe the staying in-doors
quite a bit due to rain - could be depressing, thus,
suicide capitol leads in with this type of awareness,
the kind of awareness that one knows something,
something very deep, but has few ways to express this
deep conscious experience.
Ron:
> There was supposed to be a free concert at gasworks
> park But the L.A. riots which sparked national
rioting,
> cancelled The show.
> I used to go out to the Quileute res. At LaPush
> often in Those days.
SA: What is the Quileute res? And LaPush?
Ron:
> Those were Dynamic times, nationally as well as
> musically,
SA: Yes, indeed. I remember many people in the
university were beginning to think something like the
60's, rebellious times, was going to start, but it
stayed underground and didn't emerge to close to the
surface of society it seems. I often wonder what
would have been the trigger. A book? A wider voice
that many could recognize with in a more collective
action, with many voices speaking at the mainstream
level, don't know? But I do know that many didn't
want the attention, and this may have held people
back. People wanted to keep low and do their own
thing without the limelight. The underground wanted
to go mainstream but stay underground.
Ron:
> The social terrain was moving toward a change, Perot
> was Shakin shit up. People were itching for a
change.
> But Somehow it all collapsed.
SA: That's so wierd. I finished typing this up
above, and you knew this already. It was going
towards change and Perot - your right, it was getting
mainstream. People yearn for this still to day. A
third party, but something's got to give. I think it
hinges on this "the underground wanted to be
mainstream but stay underground". The celebrity role
was noticed as something to avoid. Why? To not
become what people were fighting against. That's key.
To not become something else that people would want
to fight against, whether those that would fight would
be the next generation, our children, or their
children. Much hinges on this disillusionment of
culture, but what can we do? This application is what
is in question. People want to apply change in many
different ways, but the giant is a Goliath. It will
not be a single David with a sling, but many people
with enough organization to put forth something that
will stick.
Without an understanding of the true artistic
intentions that need some kind of conscious boast into
mainstream culture, mainstream will not be able to
latch this underground and keep the underground
consciousness in a mainstream role. Did you notice
that much hasn't changed since the early nineties in
mainstream music? The eighties were definitely a
different style of music than the disco 70's and the
rock-n-roll 60's, and the nineties were different than
all three, but more similar to the 60's. Music is now
stuck. I listen to the radio, and hear a lot of
nineties songs on what is supposed to be the new music
(the radio station is supposed to be playing what's
new). Some music is newer, and it seems the Ministry
type, the deep primal voice of somebody shouting into
the mic. is what some of the late-teen crowd is
listening to, and I hear some of it on the radio, but
this is the only different approach that is sticking
out somewhat like a sorethumb. What do you think?
Rap was a huge hit in the late nineties and early
2000, but hit rap is talking about the same old stuff
now - marijuana, money, high-class lifestyle, and
big-boobed and big-butted babes. Rap is very glamour
oriented.
This stuckness seems to be the lurking. The culture
in wait for something to happen, that hasn't yet.
Maybe a certain momentum, a very large one, is what
will be needed, and that's what's happening. I don't
know, but something is underground - will it go
mainstream and still stay underground.
SA
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