Bo:
The "Hot Stove" example I omit because no one has to this day
offered an explanation (if Ron understands it - please elaborate).
Ron:
If I were to fly over to where you live, and snuck up on you
While you were shopping and hit you in the back of the head
With a rolled up newspaper, you would be experiencing Quality.
After you came to your senses, saw me standing over you
With said newspaper THEN you would develop an intellectualization,
Thus an understanding that I just clobbered you (note the s/o
distinction)
If I were to clobber you and run off, with no witnesses or evidence, you
Would come to your senses after being flooded with pain and confusion
And struggle to put together a scenario of just what the hell happened.
You would be putting together an intellectualization to account for your
experience.
Bo:
it's news to me that (Pirsig sees)
"...the Metaphysics of Quality resolves the subject-object
problem by containing it at A HIGH level so that there really is
no contradiction between the two systems of metaphysics."
...and I wish that was true, because that is just what the SOL does by
making the intellectual level the S/O distinction.
Ron:
It is true, and the key to understanding what he means and
What I'm trying to get across.
Bo:
But then Pirsig
contradicts himself by repeating that the two LOWER LEVELS are
"objective" ....etc
Ron:
He is not contradicting himself
Read carefully, the MoQ levels are 4th level patterns. He contains them
To this level because that's all they are. Objective truth is a 4th
Level pattern. a subjective pattern.
We view reality with our intellectual glasses.
Use your newfound understanding of the many truths principle.
Regarding Ron's post before this where he says:
> Ron:
> Well by all means lets run with it.
> I highlighted some points that I think need to be brought to bear to
> Clarify the MoQ position in regard to the intellectual level being
> The aggregate of the S/O distinction. In fact Pirsig states that it
> Is the reverse, that the intellectual level creates the aggregate
> Of the s/o distinction.
Bo:
That Pirsig goes against the SOL is well known. Try to think for
yourself.
Ron:
Pirsig does not go against the SOL, that the SOL is superfluous to the
MOQ is quite evident. The only difference is that SOL clings
To the notion of ultimate objective truth and redefines Moq
Based on that. The reason it resembles Pirsigs earlier work
Is because that is the origin point in which Pirsig develops
And realizes his metaphysic. Pirsig, as us, was heavily
Influenced by objective thinking, he brought us along on the
realization process so That we may come to understand
the MOQ in the same manner he came to understand it.
By doing just that, thinking for ourselves.
Thanks for helping me to understand SOL and MOQ Bo.
I have learned a great deal from you.
Sincerely,
Ron
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