> [Platt] > "Bet'cha can't?" How childish can you get? > > [Arlo] > You still have not made the case that I disagree with any quotes you've > provided. You on other hand ignore 50% of Pirsig easily, as I've shown > clearly. So your little "Pee Wee" of accusing me of that which I've shown > you to be guilty of is what's "childish".
You have shown me nothing. > So, here you go, take the premise, the 'self' is the contact point between > the assimilated collective consciousness and the bounded proprietary > experience of the organism, and give me a quote from Pirsig you think > "disproves" this. First you have to give me a quote that proves this. > Every quote offered so far, both me and by you, supports my position. Can > you say the same? How does ""Mental patterns do not originate out of > inorganic nature. They originate out of society" support your claim? If you knew the MOQ you would know each higher level "originates" out of the lower level, meaning you can't skip a level if you want to understand the MOQ. > [Platt] > Yes, it's all about context -- half of which you choose to ignore. > > [Arlo] > Prove this. I've already demonstrated clearly it is the case with you. Demonstrated? You make me laugh. > [Platt] > I have never claimed culture has no influence. But as for "collectivist > origin," only a Marxist would try to float that balloon. > > [Arlo] > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society." (LILA) > > Actually, to the best of my knowledge Marx never wrote about the origins of > mind. Maybe you have him confused with Vygotsky. But however you wish to > frame it, yes, Marx and Pirsig both float this balloon, and I agree with > them. See meaning of "originate" explained above. > [Platt] > I have agreed time and again with the influence of culture on the > individual. > > [Arlo] > "The seventeenth century French culture exists, therefore I think... " > > "The seventeenth century French culture exists ... therefore I am." > > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society". > > Yes or no, do you agree or disagree with these statements. Flat out answer > please. Not that society "influences" the individual, but that "mental > patterns ORIGINATE out of society." Yes or no? Yes. As explained above. > [Platt] > What you refuse to recognize is the ability of the individual to see beyond > the view provided by cultural spectacles and respond to DQ, moving evolution > forward. > > [Arlo] > Again, the premise of the self as contact point between the assimilated > social consciousness and the bounded proprietary experience of the organism > absolutely recognizes this. In your dreams. Yes or no. Do you agree or disagree with this statement. Flat out answer please. "A tribe can change its values only PERSON by PERSON and SOMEONE has to be FIRST" i.e., ORIGINATE. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
