> [Platt] > That you support both quotes is the laugh of the century. > > [Arlo] > I've made the case I do. Prove I dont. Bet'cha can't. You've not pointed to > any one quote that contradicts my claim. All you do is try to use the ones > you've provided to show that the ones I've provided are wrong.
"Bet'cha can't?" How childish can you get? > [Platt] > Read what he said in the ZMM quote. What's really embarrassing is your > denial of the obvious. > > [Arlo] > He said he is a lifelong democrat. I'd imagine that means he is voting for > Hillary or Barrack. > > And again, nothing in the ZMM quote I disagree with. I just take it in > context with his understanding of the collective consciousness. Yes, it's all about context -- half of which you choose to ignore. > [Platt] > "Collectivist origin of the mind" -- thanks for proving my point! > > [Arlo] > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society." (LILA) > > "The seventeenth century French culture exists, therefore I think, therefore > I am," he would have been correct."(LILA) > > The collectivist origin of mind. > > So yes, I agree with Pirsig. I have never claimed culture has no influence. But as for "collectivist origin," only a Marxist would try to float that balloon. > [Platt] > And the individual is all four, a fact you always overlook in pushing your > collectivist agenda. > > [Arlo] > That's right. Our bodies are inorganic and biological. Our mind is social > and intellectual. I don't overlook it at all. > > Indeed, it is crucial to understand when Pirsig says... > > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society, which originates out of biology which originates out of > inorganic nature. And, as anthropologists know so well, what a mind thinks > is as dominated by social patterns as social patterns are dominated by > biological patterns are dominated by inorganic patterns. There is no direct > scientific connection between mind and matter." > > [Platt] > No. They are relevant only to your using the MOQ as an apologist doctrine > to wage war against individualism > > [Arlo] > As is evident, that war exists only to you. And here you prove you are > incapable of seeing anything other than these two polar sides engaged in a a > war. Its why you and Ham both deny 1/2 of Pirsig's words. Typical leftist tactic -- accuse opponents of what the left is guilty of. > [Platt] > What's truly hilarious and sad is your ignoring any quote that opposes your > one-sided interpretation of the MOQ. > > [Arlo] > You can quote all you want. None you have provided, nor can provide, > contract the full context I read in Pirsig. You continue to be the only one > who uses Pirsig against Pirsig. Again, truly astonishing, if not outright > sad. Sad is your belief that individuals are locked in a cultural box from which there is no escape, completed ignoring the brujo story not to mention the innovative breakthrough by Pirsig himself. > [Arlo] > So you agree with Pirsig that mind originates out of society? > > "The seventeenth century French culture exists, therefore I think... " > > "The seventeenth century French culture exists ... therefore I am." > > Agree? > > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society". > > Agree? I have agreed time and again with the influence of culture on the individual. What you refuse to recognize is the ability of the individual to see beyond the view provided by cultural spectacles and respond to DQ, moving evolution forward. > [Platt] > As I keep reminding you, culture influences the individual, but is not the > whole individual by a long shot, and your reference to the Cartesian me is > just another of your laughable red herrings. > > [Arlo] > Never said culture was the whole individual. Not once. Talk about your red > herring. I said the "self" was a contact point between the assimilated > collective consciousness and the proprietary experience of the bounded > organism. Every quote offered, by me and you, support this. > > I also said "mind" originates out of society. That's simply a direct > quotation from Pirsig. > > "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate > out of society". > > But, hey, make me laugh again. Use some other quote by Pirsig to try to deny > these. Such a strange and sad thing to see. Nothing sadder to see than an academic with mean, narrow outlook. Pirsig nailed it: "It is my opinion that university faculty people are not very nice. They grade people every quarter, every year. That temperament develops. You know when you talk to them they are judging you. And their judgement is usually harsh." That glove fits you very well. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
