[Ham] In any case, I find Ron's assertion that "our intellectual thoughts are dictated by grammar" to be an extreme position that defies common sense and is unsupported by empirical evidence.
[Ron] Well Ham you are not alone. But I thank you for your honest response. I think humans are able to think and have thoughts but humans who Use language think in different ways, I think when we intellectualize We are haggling over how terms are understood. We build conceptions Upon these understandings. Empirically I haven't a leg to stand on this issue because anything I say from here is meaningless. I realize this. [Arlo] Give me an example of an intellectual thought that is not dictated by grammar? Hell, give me an "intellectual thought" that does not use "words"! I'd say the reverse is true, what "defies common sense" is the idea that our "intellectual thoughts" are not constrained by the language in which we think! Of course, we also realize that this is not a bad thing, since "language" bestows upon us the ability to have "intellectual thoughts" at all! [Krimel] Yeah, I thought Ron was too willing to bail out early on this one. But oddly enough I tend to side with Ham on this. How could anyone possibly give you an example of a thought not dictated by grammar or words? How would the thought be conveyed? The best example I can think of is in the split brained patient attempting to put together a puzzle. It is easily done with one hand but when the other hand tries, it fumbles around and the first hand keeps trying to reach in and help. Language facilitates thought. It makes certain kinds of thought possible that might not be otherwise. But it seems to me that language reveals the structure of thought more than it dictates the structure of thought. Or a least this is a two way interaction. Also if you restrict thought to intellectual thought what does that mean? Aren't you in effect saying that intellectual thought is verbal thought so thought must be verbal? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
