[Ham] You see, I don't believe that. I believe morality is an intellectual synthesis of what philosophers have called the "common good". It's a pragmatic system devised by man to accommodate a diversity of social values with minimal harm to the individual. The Golden Rule is a moralistic maxim.
So is Kant's categorical imperative: "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law." Both are "rational" solutions to the antagonism and violence that can result from conflicting values. [Krimel] Studies of the Prisoner's Dilemma suggest that both Kant and the Golden Rule are effective strategies for maximizing outcomes even within game theory and psychology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma Similar formulations of this rule are so universal within human cultures across the planet and throughout the ages that it is tempting to see it as a genetic rule. But I think a good case can be made that that's just The Way it shakes out when shit happens. [Ham] Conversely, while collective behavior enforced by empirical decree, religious law, or involuntary servitude may result in a "moral society", the restriction of individual freedom is immoral. Hence the need for reason to mediate the free expression of value. [Krimel] Collective behavior can be manipulated in many ways and as you suggest force is one of them. Others would included inspiration, loyalty, brotherhood, service, devotion ... Heck, they make framed posters representing divergent views on the values that influence common cause. http://www.allposters.com/-st/Motivational-Posters_c12920_.htm http://www.despair.com/achievement.html I might remind you that imperial decrease was a very successful social strategy on this planet for at least 3,000 years in Egypt, longer in China. Priestly rule is not uncommon from shamans to Popes. This has worked in many places for hundreds perhaps thousands of years. The Greeks and Romans had slaves and similar forms of indentured servitude were common throughout the middle ages. None of these systems can long be sustained purely by force. Witness the US prison system if you believe humans can be controlled by force alone. I would say that the ideal society would be a just society. I would say that a just society provides the context for maximizing individual freedom of expression. In a just society the rules are simple, no more than say ten. Everyone knows and understands them. Not everyone agrees with all of them but they know how hard they can push those they don't. People can be very ingenious when it comes to bending rules. Think prohibition, then and now. Just rules don't need to be bent. People follow them willingly and take personal offense at violators. Just rules harmonize the common good with common sense. Traffic laws, laws against theft and personal acts of violence come to mind. It is absurd to say that "...restriction of individual freedom is immoral." No people or peoples ever in history have held this to be true. That is anarchy and chaos. The Tanahk speaks of times when "every man did what seemed good to him" trouble always results. If there are two people in a room together, each limits the other's individual freedom. When three or more are gathered, at some point, patterns of rules emerge that generally attempt to define some measure of justice. You say, "Hence the need for reason to mediate the free expression of value." But reason seldom mediates the free expression of value. Some might say that reason impedes a truly free expression of value. Artists and mystics, divas, dancers and drummers might agree. Reason is just one of many paths to justice. The Tao te Ching has much to say about justice. A personal favorite passage describes its dissolution. This is based on an old translation by James Legge. I have taken certain liberties with it. "Thus it was that: when the Tao was lost, its attributes appeared; when its attributes were lost, morality appeared; when morality was lost, laws appeared. Law is the shadow of good faith, and the commencement of disorder." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
