Hi Ham, An answer, a question and an observation:
[Ham] As a moral relativist who views the universe as an amoral system, I was interested to see how Pirsig supports Platt's contention. But I was disappointed to find the "moral order" described in the LILA quotation somewhat incoherent, even by MoQ standards, and more problematic than helpful in this context. [Pirisg] "Morals can't function normally because morals have been declaredintellectually illegal by the subject-object metaphysics that dominates present social thought. These subject-object patterns were never designed for the job of governing society. They're not doing it. When they're put in the position of controlling society, of setting moral standards and declaring values, and when they then declare that there are no values and no morals, the result isn't progress. The result is social catastrophe. It's this intellectual pattern of amoral "objectivity" that is to blame for the social deterioration of America ..." [Ham] That "morals have been declared intellectually illegal" by an S-O dominated society seems a tad extremist, even for a non-SOMist. When did such a declaration attain legal status? [Platt] I don't know about legal status, but you have provided the answer by stating you are a moral relativist in who views the universe as an amoral system. That's the SOM view. It's known officially in academic circles as "multiculturalism." [Ham] When a society declares "there are no values and no morals" it becomes nihilistic. While I also deplore the fact that Western Society is moving in this direction, I don't think we can blame it on an "intellectual pattern of moral 'objectivity'." I view cultural nihilism as the consequence of an intellectual decision to renounce spiritual values -- an elitist movement, incidentally, that is not countered by a collectivist thesis like the MoQ. [Platt] What are the "spiritual values" you refer to and what is their source? [Ham] Civilization is the result of similar rationalization applied to the conduct of humans living collectively. Each community or culture reaches consensus as to the moral code it must follow in order to preserve its historical values. [Platt] An accurate description of multiculturalism, meaning there are no universal moral standards. No wonder there are so many peaceniks in the West.. Regards, Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
