Hold on Pete, Bo will be with you shortly. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Corteen Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] Tit's
Hi david, As I see it SOM is hard wired in us: we are genetically predisposed to it. You said that SOM is 'an interpretation of the qualities felt in experience', but it's stronger than that: your use of the word 'interpretation' implies that we make a conscious choice to see things in that way but my point is that there is no choice. Therefore, there is no 'stepping back' to see subjects and objects in a different light. Most philosophers are too stuck in the head and most mystics are only peddling SOM kind of life after death line for their own personal glorification; but I do agree that 'experience comes first' and that experience, rather than identification with the constant stream of mental associations and social considerings, is facilitated by relaxation and an awareness of the whole body rather than having the locus of attention only in the head. -Peter 2008/7/30 david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Peter said to dmb: > ...the 'experience of not being able to walk through is more real than the > "wall"'. SOM is an indispensable convention that we are hard wired with. You > can't have mind without matter and vice-versa; I acknowledge spirit only in > terms of intentionality. What will be the characteristics of those beings > who are not limited by SOM? > > dmb says: > SOM is hard wired? I'd say that "mind" and "matter" are just like the > "wall". They're an interpretation of the qualities felt in experience. The > same idea applies to mind, matter, walls or anything else one could name. > Like I said, rejecting SOM in no way denies the experience from which these > ideas are derived, it is simply a matter of stepping back to see that > subjects and objects are conventional interpretations of experience rather > than the cause of experience. The MOQ says that experience comes first, that > experience IS reality. > > I suppose there are at least two kinds of "beings" who are not limited by > SOM; philosophers and mystics. In other words, rejecting SOM can be a matter > of thinking it through or it can be rejected on the basis of an experience > wherein all dualisms evaporate in favor of unity or the One. If you're an > infant, a dog or if you were raised by Buddhists in Japan then the limits of > SOM simply don't figure into the equation. > > Thanks. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mes senger2_072008 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
