[Platt]: > To clarify -- any difference between "proprietary" and > "individual" experience?
Ham; No, none at all. I throw in "proprietary" once in a while as a reminder that all awareness is subjective (a word that Pirsigians dislike). But it hasn't done any good. Ron apparently believes that human appreciation of value is a "mystical" experience. [Ron]: I sure do, the illusion that is myself is indeed a special experience. I try not to take any of it as "granted". Ham: What these comments tell me is that 'proprietary' has no meaning in Pirsig's scheme of things. The individual, like awareness, knowledge and intellect, is just a pattern (or patterns) of cosmic quality without any cosmic significance. They've discounted subjectivity -- the experiential locus of reality -- and made it a byproduct of nature and collective society. Whatever value or morality means relates to the universe, not to man. Ron: Man and the universe are one. They relate to both .. Ham: Existence (their God) moves in strange ways toward "betterness", and we must latch on to the collective intellect if we are to keep up. Ron: We must focus on immediate awareness if we want to keep up, god is one of many words, Dynamic quality some would call it, aware in the moment, playing heads up, paying attention, situational awareness, value sensibility ect... Ham: Only intuitive logic can rise above experiential existence and allow a conception of ultimate reality. Unfortunately, it isn't found in Pirsig's Quality heirarchy. Ron: 'n thank f'n Christ for that.. Warmest regards, Ron Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
