Ron: That's my point too, credibility and authoritativeness allows the society to adjust to those shifts in socially acceptable manners. Most adults Do tend to not understand why others don't see things they way they do. They get caught up in static patterns so much so we seldom realize we do it. (SOM)
The old Shamans and likewise the local doctor wore many hats in the community, they were not only physicians but psychiatrists, ministers and scientists, well respected for their opinion. Community action usually hinged on their assessment. They dealt with emergent situations. They deal with the unknown and make some sort of sense of it for social Consumption because your average citizen does not have the developed ability to shift and interpret emergent situations accurately. Or they may be mentally ill. As you state, but I counter that these people of position are social figures designated for this very purpose, they are chosen and trained. [Krimel] First a kind of side note. THE most important thing that our brains allow us to do is to reduce uncertainty. We are pattern recognizers and meaning makers. Both are means of reducing uncertainty. In the modern world we have turned this art into a science and then into a technology. In ancient times not enough knowledge or collected wisdom had accumulated to allow for much reduction in the uncertainty people found around them. Any reduction in uncertainty is better then none and so shamanic visions were taken much more seriously than they would be today. After all a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse. But for example the Jews distinguished between a true prophet and a false prophet based on the prophet's track record. Unlike the modern investor people were inclined to think that past performance might actually be a predictor of future success. I am not a fan of stage theories but we seems to be talked a bit about different stages in the ability to shift perceptive. As I said the earliest form of this is shared attention. Even this ability sets us apart from almost every other species on the planet. Even our nearest relatives the chimps have difficulty figuring out that the finger that points at the moon is not the moon. The next stage of this might be the recognition that others do not see what we see or know what we know. This is the ability that allows adults to play poker for example. Some higher stage of this might be the most advanced conceptual gestalt shifts in conceptual illusions that you are talking about. But I see the whole business springing from the same root and I tend to be a lumper rather than a splitter. Tomasello maintains that it is this ability even in i9ts more rudimentary forms than not only sets us apart freom other primates but out of which our language abilities grow. Ron: Do you know how many people simply can NOT visualize, I have some experience in this, it's real handy being able to render. Most people do not have the ability which gives work to people like me who can. I was paid to visualize and render that visualization so others can understand what is being proposed. If everyone could do it I'd be out a job. Some peoples illusion shifting is more limited than others. There are a few here who have trouble shifting points of view. [Krimel] I don't visualize well either so you could have job anytime you want to work really cheap. Still I am way naïve in this respect. I rather assume people do shift their perspectives a lot and just find mine lacking. I do that with Platt, Ham and dmb all the time. I have voted libertarian in the past. I have studied Buddhism in the past. I have entertained mystical notions in the past. I guess you could say I am shifty. As a side note Howard Gardner proposed something along the line you hint at with his multiple intelligences. Rather than the sort of generalized intelligence most folks have talked about his puts forth things like kinesthetic, emotional, special etc intelligences. Daniel Goleman has expanded and popularized Gardner's emotional intelligence. Different stokes for different folks, if you will. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
