Krimel: "Reality" is rather like William Gibson's description of cyberspace as a "consensual hallucination."
I would like to raise a few points here that relate not only to the mind/body problem but also to the notion of a self and to mysticism. There seems to be an underlying idea in much of what goes on in these discussions that experience is a unitary phenomena. Not just the idea of mystical oneness but that we can have "an" experience. From my point of view this is definitely and demonstrably an illusion in the "Kulpian" sense, as Ron has outlined. We do not have singular experiences. We can not have singular experiences. We have multiple experiences through multiple pathways and we synthesize those into the singularity of experience and of self. Ron: I agree Krimel, you have pretty much described my own thoughts quite well. when I speak about mystical experience I'm mean dynamic experience and dynamic experience is a intersection of multiple experiences and exactly, synthesizing it into a singularity. (another reason I thought Topos theory was cool.) The singularity that emerges from the multiplicity is nothing short of mystical in my opinion. The experience of being that nebulous hallucination type illusion or "entity" is prime. Now 'oness" is an illusion as is separateness but, we are what we experience. Krimel: Experience begins as sensory input. Sensory input arrives through the various pathways of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, temperature, balance, pressure, proprioception and perhaps a few more. Ron: I beg to offer the idea that experience begins with phenomena. In this way the mystics contemplate unity. They do not offer a blueprint or map but ways to discover and break static conceptions. Trace the trail you made with sensory qualia and it returns to phenomena. Energy is exchanged from phenomena to stimuli. This is verified by collaborative agreement and successful response. Again physically as mentally we are an intersection of a multiplicity of phenomenal forces. It's difficult to comprehend and even more difficult to convey. Krimel: There is a temporal dimension to all of this that I would love to explore. There is also a whole set of ideas that arise from dmb's mention of how ideas, concepts and experience connect together but since this is pretty long already I think I'll stop. This is all likely to be either ignored or poopooed anyway so have a nice day y'all. Ron: Poopoo happens, "kulpian illusion" doesn't roll off the tongue, how bout the "Gestalt illusion" lends some credibility and is more easily referenced to meaning implied. Kulpian is like fingers to blackboard... .. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
