DMB 20 Aug. you wrote:
> Bo said to Magnus: > For the umpteenth time the 4th level is NOT thinking. ...The MOQ is a > metaphysics the greatest system there is .. follow me that far? It > postulates the DQ/SQ split and several static levels ...OK? Then it > follows by simple logic that it can't be part of any of its own > levels, but simply be itself. > dmb says: > What kind of logic is that? How can you have an intellectual model of > reality (metaphysics) that does not include the model itself? In what > sense could that model stand outside of reality? At best, that would > be a very bad metaphysical system, one that can't account for itself > within that system. My premises is that the MOQ has the intellectual LEVEL as one of its own subsets, consequently the MOQ can't be an intellectual LEVEL pattern, thus your opening question "... how can you have an intellectual model of reality (metaphysics)" does not apply. Your intellect seems to be the mental compartment that contains models of reality - AKA "mind" - and mind is part of the mind/matter dichotomy that the MOQ rejects and replaces with its own DQ/SQ. > And how do you figure that an intellectual > description of reality (metaphysics) does NOT belong at the > intellectual level? In the good old days mythologies were your specialty and these "descriptions of reality" were not intellectual because it was before the intellectual LEVEL. And to contemporary social level cultures their holy texts aren't intellectual descriptions, they are GOD's OWN WORDS! The notion that any reality (and it must necessarily be described) is intellectual (theoretical, mental) is 4th level through and through.. > And how do you figure that the intellectual level > does not involving thinking? "Thinking" is defined by the 4th level as mental patterns, and mental/corporeal is part of its (intellect's) S/O matrix that the MOQ has declared invalid. Thus the 4th. intellectual level does not involve thinking as such, it involves a thinking realm (mind) as different from a material realm. Thinking or intelligence is something from deep down in the biological level when the more advanced neural system called brain allowed for storage of previous experience and running through logical gates thereof. Animals may be very intelligent too, but haven't reached the social level and therefore not the intellectual from where existence sees thinking as belonging to a disembodied realm. And you - DMB - have obviously not reached the MOQ level where this context is seen > It seems to me that you must be suffering > from a very odd definition of "metaphysics" and "intellect". You seem > to think the MOQ is reality itself rather than words about reality and > so you are altering the MOQ so that it is construed as essentialism > rather than philosophical mysticism, which is a vigorous form of > anti-essentialism. Yes if that is essentialism I'm very much so, but because DQ is part and parcel of the MOQ I wonder how you avoid being a Quality essentialist too ... without resorting to the Quality//DQ/SQ variety that even Pirsig finally had to abandon. > I don't know how you got so mixed up but I gotta > say that being so wrong for so long is really starting to make you > look a little nuts or, at best, tragically incorrigible. OK, old friend, Phaedrus was a little nutty too, while Pirsig returned "sane" and screwed up P's original ideas. And when SA and the like applauds you, you ought to know that you are off tracks - the Q ones at least. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
