On Monday 22September 2008 1:14 AM Magnus writes to Bo: <snip> I agree that no rational explanation can be found to capture the workings of DQ. But that does *not* mean that we can't say anything about how inorganic matter developed into what we call life. As usual, I have a section about this in my essay, it seems I have to point at them one by one. "The inorganic level builds molecules in accordance to its rules and quality events. These molecules can become quite large and they can even, still using only inorganic quality events, build large crystals and molecules that resemble self replication. But when the inorganic level has done what it can, and created massive molecules with all these protrusions and intrusions, then it can't do anymore. All these molecules are just floating around in the primordial soup and no inorganic quality events can be used to refine or even change the status quo. The inorganic level has simply finished its job. (This is of course not entirely true. I'm sure it had plenty of things to do, but let's imagine this was the case in a limited environment.) This is the time for dynamic quality to get to work. Instead of waiting around for eons without anything happening, it started combining the combinable parts of the soup and thereby created a completely new set of static rules, the biological level." <snip> Hi Magnus, Bo and All, Magnus, the gentleness of your generous open-heart approach is very appealing and special! IMO DQ cannot be an agent of change. DQ is an order in existence. That is why no rational explanation can be found to capture the workings of DQ. Evolution describes levels in existence. It is useless to ask how! Only the undefined individual has that experience which can only be communicated by analogy or metaphor. Yet that Subjective part of the individual is experienced. SOM is the false assertion that mind is separate from matter and definable. Aristotle asserts that the mind abstracts the ³essence² from an image and gives it ³intentional² existence in a mind, a word. MOQ asserts that mind does not exist apart from matter, only the individual Subject exists. Language exists. The assertion that evolution exists indicates undefined levels in existence. S undefined individual, O defined Object. Another division which describes behavior is Conscious, undefined behavior, and Mechanical, defined behavior. I am mostly unconscious in what I believe, and your treatise deserves careful consideration. Joe
On 9/22/08 1:14 AM, "Magnus Berg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree that no rational explanation can be found to capture the workings of > DQ. > But that does *not* mean that we can't say anything about how inorganic matter > developed into what we call life. As usual, I have a section about this in my > essay, it seems I have to point at them one by one. > > "The inorganic level builds molecules in accordance to its rules and quality > events. These molecules can become quite large and they can even, still using > only inorganic quality events, build large crystals and molecules that > resemble > self replication. But when the inorganic level has done what it can, and > created > massive molecules with all these protrusions and intrusions, then it can't do > anymore. All these molecules are just floating around in the primordial soup > and > no inorganic quality events can be used to refine or even change the status > quo. > The inorganic level has simply finished its job. (This is of course not > entirely > true. I'm sure it had plenty of things to do, but let's imagine this was the > case in a limited environment.) This is the time for dynamic quality to get to > work. Instead of waiting around for eons without anything happening, it > started > combining the combinable parts of the soup and thereby created a completely > new > set of static rules, the biological level." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
