On Wednesday 24 September 2008 5:08 AM Magnus asks why? Hi Joe > IMO DQ cannot be an agent of change. DQ is an order > in existence. I disagree. I think DQ is the sole reason why the MoQ is able to encompass processes such as the creation of the universe. If it were an "order of existence", it would lose that ability because then the universe would have had no way of coming into existence, no matter what order. Hi Magnus and all, In using the terminology of Physics, Metaphysics, it is assumed that Physics cannot explain Metaphysics. In the MOQ I interpret Pirsig as saying undefined DQ is distinguished from defined SQ. I accept this to be a description of reality so that there is an undefined and defined reality. ³Agent of change² is a definition of DQ in that it describes an efficient agency like god between two undefined elements. There may be an agency between two undefined elements but this is a matter of undefined consciousness or faith, not Metaphysics. ³Order in existence² keeps the undefined nature of DQ as no agency is implied. > That is why no rational explanation can be found to capture > the workings of DQ. [Magnus] No rational explanation can be found to capture DQ also if it is "an agent of change". [Joe] When you connect DQ to an ³agent of change² you are using a faith based criterion for the agency¹s necessary connection, not metaphysics. > Evolution describes levels in existence. It is > useless to ask how! Why? [Joe] I am using ³asking² in terms of metaphysics. I have no objection to a faith based vocabulary like "creation". Joe
On 9/24/08 5:08 AM, "Magnus Berg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Joe > >> IMO DQ cannot be an agent of change. DQ is an order >> in existence. > > I disagree. I think DQ is the sole reason why the MoQ is able to encompass > processes such as the creation of the universe. If it were an "order of > existence", it would lose that ability because then the universe would have > had > no way of coming into existence, no matter what order. > >> That is why no rational explanation can be found to capture >> the workings of DQ. > > No rational explanation can be found to capture DQ also if it is "an agent of > change". > >> Evolution describes levels in existence. It is >> useless to ask how! > > Why? > > > Magnus > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
