Hi Magnus 2 Oct. :
Bo before: > > this stems from the MOQ not being > > known in general and that some alleged moqists not having grasped > > what its 3rd. level is about, namely a liberation from the > > biological level. Magnus the star example of a misconceived social > > level. Magnus: > Then perhaps you can tell me what you think is wrong in my reasoning > from my essay? You stuck your head in the sand the last time (22/9). > ------------------- snip ------------------------------- > And about "former level's limitations", I wrote the below section > about that in my essay. I'd say your "escape from the former level's > limitations" is rather single-minded. > "When levels are compared, they are often seen as opposed to each > other. It's always this combat between the lower and higher levels and > the higher is always supposed to grab the moral victory. But no > thought have ever been given to how the higher level pattern got > started in the first place. For example the social pattern family > would never have been created without the biological pattern lust. But > even so, these two patterns are always described to be in direct > opposition to each other. Family as a social pattern is dubious. Animals form families in the most basic sense, at least the mammals necessarily do, but this mother-child relationship is all biology and so is the male's behavior, it often kills the the young before it mates with their mother (this varies wildly of course). Family in the human klan sense however is definitely social and here the immense genealological system of kinship begins, something that lead to ethnicity, f.ex. the Abraham tribe of Israel that became the Jews, all nonsense in an objective intellectual view, yet most important socially. > It's of course true that lust to another can destroy a family, but it > is often forgotten that this same lust also was the initial spark that > got the family started in the first place. In biology there is no love, responsibility or guilt of "destroying families" or anything, it's all about feeding and proliferating. On the Q-social level - which is human - the control (struggle) with biology is most clearly expressed as religion (Judaism, Islam and the old Christendom) and their obsession with sex and nutrition (endless prescriptions about decent dress, menstruation, animals that can be used for food, method of slaughter) > This is also true for all other social patterns; this is the biological > level setting the stage for the social. They all got started because a > biological urge happened to result in a socially valuable structure. About society out of biology we all agree, but as soon as the social level "came of age" it started to control its parent level. There were other forms of social control thant the said, but all required the basic realization of existence transcending the individual. "Saving for the future", "the group's interest" and many more. > A city got started next to a creek because someone needed the water for > farming, then a hardware store came along to provide tools for the > farmer(s), and then I'll let Mark Knopfler continue with some lines > from "Telegraph Road" by Dire Straits: > Then came the churches then came the schools > Then came the lawyers then came the rules > Then came the trains and the trucks with their loads > And the dirty old track was the telegraph road" Right, but this is a modern (intellectual) vision of how a community grows, I don't really know what it is supposed to convey. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
