Bodvar: Marx lived in England and took its (intellectual in our lingo) patterns for granted and thought that a revolution simply would take them over, now run by "workers". But being transferred to the despotic Russia it was soon corrupted by social social forces and Marx' ideal schemes were used for the many mad "plans" (collectivization for instance) without implementing any of the said intellectual patterns. Freedom of press, speech ...ect.
Andre: Agree Bodvar. I am no expert on Marx but what I do know is that he was convinced that Russia was the least likely country to succeed in implementing...moving towards... socialism. In fact he thought England and Later, America more likely and he simply based this on their industrial/economic level of development, plus concomittant social ens intellectual development. BUT, he didn't expect this to happen overnight...it was to be gradual. He argued that you cannot make the 'jump' from feudalism to socialism without the intervening period of capitalism.One cannot 'impose' socialism. That I believe is the biggest mistake made (by Lenin, Stalin, Mao). It may also 'explain' current Chinese developments. Marx argued that 'economies' had to go through particular phases before communism is realised. This process is a process taking place now but it will be some time before 'we' move into the next phase. Bodvar: Society is dominated by (controlled by) intellectual value in the Western culture, and this intellectual over-control will be checked when/if the MOQ comes to be "standard model". Andre: And when will this happen I wonder Bodvar? What conditions need to be met before this can take place? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
