Bodvar wrote: I'm surprised that you pointedly avoid the MOQ, and use the intellectual level's p.o.v. (meaning SOM). "Weaken a society"???? It's not social value which is weakened but INTELLECT-DOMINATED SOCIETY! Cultures that still are social-value-steeped - as is the muslim - are a threat to intellectual tolerance, but your limitless tolerance undermines the quality tolerance. Some Muslims who have come here see satire regarding religion as an attack on their very foundation, the fact that they are in Europe makes no difference, where true believers are situated is "Umma" according to their doctrine. Had tolerance been letting people believe what they want everything would be easy, such multiculturalism everyone supports, and immigrants - except the Muslims - pose no problem. In Norway there are a lot of Vietnamese, they surely looks different from us and have their Buddhist tradition, but no problems whatsoever. But when the fanatics start to assassinate what they see as "mockers of faith" it's more than "ordinary" murder, its social value devouring intellectual and already the media here are vary of offending Islam (Christendom is still fair game) Again, only the MOQ explains what is at stake namely a new front of intellect's struggle with society, but without the MOQ context intellect as SOM will saw over the intellect-dominated social branch it's sitting on. "Foreign" social value is just "culture " and must in the name of tolerance be given free rein. That the ones who haven't heard about Pirsig are blind is one thing, but when the alleged MOQists goes on in the same vein ...phew!
Andre: Excellent post Bodvar! My post was mainly aimed at the title of the article:From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance. Tragedies such as the ones I mentioned threaten achieved intellectual PoV's such as 'tolerance', for me meaning the acceptance of differences i.e ideas, behaviours and experiences. They are under treat because they are being abused and analysing who are abusing them presents an interesting picture: I have mentioned the minority of louts whose cultural values are steeped within the social (ie Muslims). But other phenomena such as coffee-shops, where one can enjoy a legal 'smoke' are abused by visitors. Not all coffee shops are abused, only the ones bordering Belgium and Germany where on weekends they cause havoc in the pubs and on the streets. Then the coffee-shops and the red-light district (mainly in Amsterdam) are visited by plane-loads of English louts every weekend causing drunkenness, od's, vandalism, destruction of public and private property etc, etc. I am not suggesting that the Dutch are holy, plenty of loutish behaviour there as well, but this has never lead to a questioning of 'degree of tolerance' with which intellectual patterns are now being confronted. I suppose what I am saying is that one has to have some familiarity with a tolerant attitude. I hope that 'current notions of Dutch tolerance' will not be devoured by these behaviours (only time will tell) but should that be the result, it will be a regressive step, an immoral act, a victory of social over intellectual. IMHO Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
