[Ham] The trap (or pitfall) of the collective mindset is its failure to Acknowledge man as an individuated agent.
[Case] In the collectivist pit undifferentiated We long to rise individuated We'd be more eager to be liberated If some didn't sound so constipated. [Ham] The MoQist is trapped in a nihilistic universe that has no need of agency but evolves to "betterness" for its own sake. [Case] The nihilist's trap at least has space Room to move, a place to pace You'd make "meaning" out of fresh thin air We're just as glad to say none is there. The thought of such fills you with dread All we claim is, it's all in your head. [Ham] When you define human being as a "collection of patterns"... [Case] I would want to "describe" "man" as such. But "definition" doesn't amount to much. Especially when applied to "man" All "definition" is pounding sand. [Ham] ...relegate intellect to an extracorporeal "level" you reduce man to a puppet of biological evolution... [Case] Call it psychic. Call it a level. Call evolution the work of the devil Who tugs us with genetic strings And laughs at the songs his puppet sings. [Ham] ...thus depriving him of proprietary awareness and the freedom to act in accordance with his value sensibilities. [Case] Sensation may be solely mine But awareness is of another kind. It's the sense that issues hence >From socially shared experience. Value sensibility you clutch with devotion Is genetically encoded as mood and emotion Love and joy, shock and fear Are the sorts of things that keep us here. I know you fail to see the wisdom Of calling them products of the limbic system But they evolved in ape, dog and dove [See the Devil's work above) [Ham] The MoQ is an existential philosophy that echoes Sartre's assertion that "man is unnecessary, since the world exists just as well without him". [Case] I for one would do my part To resurrect the ghost of Sartre The moon and stars just do not care When they look to earth, who's standing there. [Ham] I have repeatedly stated here that unrealized value is an epistemological absurdity. No matter how you define Quality and Value, they do not exist independently of a sensible agent. [Case] Is unrealized value that absurd? There's potential energy or hadn't you heard? To claim that things to not exist Unless you see them as you insist Smacks of a child scrunched under the covers Hiding from monsters until he smothers. [Ham] I do separate man's psychic identity from organic experience, however. [Case] Psychic identity? Let's call Miss Cleo Her hotline is open but I don't think it's free, no. The psychic connection you claim you can sever And still leave it floating in heaven forever... ...what the hell, I just can't continue Talking of phantom cavorting within you To speak of organic and the psychic within it Miss Cleo is waiting at nine dollar a minute. [Ham] As a being-aware, man is dependent on an 'otherness' for his individuated existence as well as his experiential reality. [Case] Awareness of being or Being-aware What does that mean and why should I care. You make up these terms and think them sufficient To cover vocabulary sadly deficient. Existentially I think you don't want to go there again But these terms make you sound just a bit Heideggarian. [Ham] Man is the agency whereby Value is realized as being in the world. [Case] I hear the State Farm is an agency too. They have them at Geico, Progressive and Pru When Man finally gets his agency open I'll save a bundle. At least I am hopin' "Unrealized Value's absurd," said Ham with assurance. But here it is waiting in line for insurance... [Ham] Considering that man is the only creature endowed with both value-sensibility and reason, and the differentiated world is an intellectual construct of his experience, it is my contention that the universe is anthropocentric. [Case] Anthropcentric. Now there's quite a word That term bring us back to the concept: absurd A word that places a man in the middle And gives him opposable thumbs he can twiddle While history rolls past him and he can ignore Copernicus, Newton and Einstein and Bohr As the author of such a vainglorious construct; A world made by man, eschewing of dumb luck. I'm sure if you look, you will find in a blink That only the thumbs make your anthro unique. [Ham] Before you charge me with falling into another "trap", show me why I'm wrong. [Case] A trap or a pit? Isn't that where we started? The pit was cozy 'til a collectivist farted Individuated by gas that clod was dismissed Now he's trapped with the nihilists; all of them pissed. But who in the world could show you that you're wrong? Who could convince you? Whose mind is that strong? Who could convince you? I say, "What's the use?" But I'm just an idiot channeling Seuss. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
