Great poetry Case - you are becoming very good. Ham, are you on secret mission for the Vatican?
-KO 2009/1/9 Case <[email protected]>: > [Ham] > The trap (or pitfall) of the collective mindset is its failure to > Acknowledge man as an individuated agent. > > [Case] > In the collectivist pit undifferentiated > We long to rise individuated > We'd be more eager to be liberated > If some didn't sound so constipated. > > [Ham] > The MoQist is trapped in a nihilistic universe that has no need of agency > but evolves to "betterness" for its own sake. > > [Case] > The nihilist's trap at least has space > Room to move, a place to pace > You'd make "meaning" out of fresh thin air > We're just as glad to say none is there. > The thought of such fills you with dread > All we claim is, it's all in your head. > > [Ham] > When you define human being as a "collection of patterns"... > > [Case] > I would want to "describe" "man" as such. > But "definition" doesn't amount to much. > Especially when applied to "man" > All "definition" is pounding sand. > > [Ham] > ...relegate intellect to an extracorporeal "level" you reduce man to a > puppet of biological evolution... > > [Case] > Call it psychic. Call it a level. > Call evolution the work of the devil > Who tugs us with genetic strings > And laughs at the songs his puppet sings. > > [Ham] > ...thus depriving him of proprietary awareness and the freedom to act in > accordance with his value sensibilities. > > [Case] > Sensation may be solely mine > But awareness is of another kind. > It's the sense that issues hence > >From socially shared experience. > Value sensibility you clutch with devotion > Is genetically encoded as mood and emotion > Love and joy, shock and fear > Are the sorts of things that keep us here. > I know you fail to see the wisdom > Of calling them products of the limbic system > But they evolved in ape, dog and dove > [See the Devil's work above) > > > [Ham] > The MoQ is an existential philosophy that echoes Sartre's assertion that > "man is unnecessary, since the world exists just as well without him". > > [Case] > I for one would do my part > To resurrect the ghost of Sartre > The moon and stars just do not care > When they look to earth, who's standing there. > > [Ham] > I have repeatedly stated here that unrealized value is an epistemological > absurdity. No matter how you define Quality and Value, they do not exist > independently of a sensible agent. > > [Case] > Is unrealized value that absurd? > There's potential energy or hadn't you heard? > To claim that things to not exist > Unless you see them as you insist > Smacks of a child scrunched under the covers > Hiding from monsters until he smothers. > > > [Ham] > I do separate man's psychic identity from organic experience, > however. > > [Case] > Psychic identity? Let's call Miss Cleo > Her hotline is open but I don't think it's free, no. > The psychic connection you claim you can sever > And still leave it floating in heaven forever... > ...what the hell, I just can't continue > Talking of phantom cavorting within you > To speak of organic and the psychic within it > Miss Cleo is waiting at nine dollar a minute. > > [Ham] > As a being-aware, man is dependent on an 'otherness' for his > individuated existence as well as his experiential reality. > > [Case] > Awareness of being or Being-aware > What does that mean and why should I care. > You make up these terms and think them sufficient > To cover vocabulary sadly deficient. > Existentially I think you don't want to go there again > But these terms make you sound just a bit Heideggarian. > > [Ham] > Man is the agency whereby Value is realized as being in the world. > > [Case] > I hear the State Farm is an agency too. > They have them at Geico, Progressive and Pru > When Man finally gets his agency open > I'll save a bundle. At least I am hopin' > "Unrealized Value's absurd," said Ham with assurance. > But here it is waiting in line for insurance... > > [Ham] > Considering that man is the only creature endowed with both > value-sensibility and reason, and the differentiated world is an > intellectual construct of his experience, it is my contention that the > universe is anthropocentric. > > [Case] > Anthropcentric. Now there's quite a word > That term bring us back to the concept: absurd > A word that places a man in the middle > And gives him opposable thumbs he can twiddle > While history rolls past him and he can ignore > Copernicus, Newton and Einstein and Bohr > As the author of such a vainglorious construct; > A world made by man, eschewing of dumb luck. > I'm sure if you look, you will find in a blink > That only the thumbs make your anthro unique. > > [Ham] > Before you charge me with falling into another "trap", show me why I'm > wrong. > > [Case] > A trap or a pit? Isn't that where we started? > The pit was cozy 'til a collectivist farted > Individuated by gas that clod was dismissed > Now he's trapped with the nihilists; all of them pissed. > But who in the world could show you that you're wrong? > Who could convince you? Whose mind is that strong? > Who could convince you? I say, "What's the use?" > But I'm just an idiot channeling Seuss. > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
