Andre: Hi Krimel, not sure what part of Ant's videos you're talking about but my listening to Pirsig on Ant's videos and the Heart of the Matter tapes is that as examples of quality experiences he mentions getting out of bed in the morning, going for walk, buying a new record,etc, etc. Everyday things which suggest that quality is around us in all of our 'normal' lives, everyday of our our lives. Not what I would term 'special, mystical', events. Though that depends of course on your static patterns.They may be 'special' (like doing the dishes, or preparing a meal) but not necessarily mystical. I fail to see where you get a disservice from Pirsig.
[Krimel] The disservice I am referring to specifically is the claim that the Quality of ZMM is called DQ in Lila. There are two ways to understand this. The first and the one I think Pirsig and dmb use, is that DQ IS Quality. As a result there is no Quality in the Metaphysics of Quality only DQ and SQ. Aside from being awkward; it turns the MoQ into a form of dualism which I believe Pirsig would specifically like to reject. Beside this it rather leads us to the view that DQ is GOOD. It is always Good. For me at least this turns the MoQ into just another form of New Age BS. There is a slightly more sophisticated way to approach this removal of Quality from the MoQ. That is to understand DQ as being Dynamic in the sense of change, chaos uncertainty. This makes a lot of sense to me. One of the most important findings of the past century is that Order (SQ) can and does arise spontaneously from disorder. Under this view Order (SQ) is a subset of chaos (DQ). I think this has the advantage of closer correspondence with experience and it preserves the monism. Unfortunately I don't think this is what either Dave or Pirsig have in mind. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
