Platt to Bodvar: > See, social, inorganic and biological values are made into > intellectual "signs" and "manipulated independently ...etc" exactly > as SOM sees language as an abstract shadow of the real world. > All this go against the very grain of the real MOQ that has > relegated the S/O - mind/matter - distinction as intellect's value. > I.e. this is all INSIDE the 4th. level .
Probably a stupid question: "What else is inside the 4th level?" If nothing else, doesn't that make the 4th level the exclusive site of S/O metaphysics? Thanks, Bo. Platt Andre: I'll second that question Platt. And further: MoQ's 4th level is called 'static intellectual patterns of value' (quite a mouthful) and I would suggest that it is capable of far more than valueing the subject/object distinction, because is is very usefull and has proven itself to be so ( on both the positive and negative side). BUT: is that all there is to this 4th level? Are we all born with a s/o divided intellect? Is it hard-wired into us? Are we creating 'shadows of the real world' with our words when we are describing our experiences? Do we not have dreams, imaginings, intuitions etc etc that are part and parcel of this Intell. PoV and is it not severely curtailed by our upbringing and education to see and interpret 'reality' in terms of subjects and objects and thereby forcing the 'M' onto the whole lot (i.e subservient to social PoV's)? Is it not simply learned behaviour to think that way? Where is the MoQ in your SOL? Is there 'room for it? I can see it fit into the 4th level...as a pattern of intellectual value. Is the MoQ the totality of Reality?? Is the MoQ representative of all of reality, or is it a way of describing reality which makes much more sense and dissolves lots of platypi caused by SOM? I do not think so Bodvar.The MoQ is not reality. The 'undifferentiated aesthetic continuum', the Tao, the 'flux'. These cannot be captured. To even try to is to prostitute them. Doesn't the MoQ challenge the 'M' part of the S/O and highly values the ability it has afforded us to think in s/o ways? Thereby subsuming this self same ability within the MoQ. I am sorry to come on so hard Bodvar but I do have these questions that keep on nagging and, do not take this personally, you are not the only authority on the MoQ to provide THE answers. As you know, I am, among other things , a teacher. Whenever a student gave an answer to a question, I would go into dialogue and formulate/stimulate new questions for the student to consider based on what the student came up with. I would not impose my ideas and say: you see it the wrong way you should do this and that and the other because the world is like this!!! and not that nor anything else!! As you know, the best way to pay respects to your teacher is to criticise him/her. In anticipation. Regards Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
