MP, Are you saying that you don't experience the awakening into this life at birth, and everything subsequently? Language and reason were created after these mystical experiences to express them, no more. The -I believe- is no different than a hot stove which is sat upon, you live your life accordingly thereafter. Or maybe it is more like sex, some people like it, some don't. To think that reason is more than this negates its very roots. Oh, the reasoning in Tao is very clear and directive, all it provides is reasoning. Chapter 1
The "Tao" is too great to be described by the name "Tao". If it could be named so simply, it would not be the eternal Tao. Heaven and Earth began from the nameless (Tao), but the multitudes of things around us were created by names. We desire to understand the world by giving names to the things we see, but these things are only the effects of something subtle. When we see beyond the desire to use names, we can sense the nameless cause of these effects. The cause and the effects are aspects of the same, one thing. They are both mysterious and profound. At their most mysterious and profound point lies the "Gate of the Great Truth". Willblake2 On Mar 4, 2009, at 3:14:36 PM, "Michael Poloukhine" <[email protected]> wrote: > ?I mean to say that faith and reason are the same. > Faith is belief, I ask,?on what does one base faith on? > > -Ron MP: Ron, it is with the first statement then that I completely disagree. Faith; the "I believe" seed moment is not reasoned but experienced. You experience something and it gives rise to a belief through reason. But as with anything else, reason can only speak in reason's language, in fact language is in the realm of reason. Faith on the other hand is outside language, it arises conceptually before language. We just use language to describe it because "describing" is a form of reasoned action. (I do not propose all religious faithful come from this perspective. Many, admittedly reason themselves into "a faith" coming at it backwards. Their loss, IMO. But IMO that is the fault of SOM/reason's perniciousness in our culture and faith's weakness in the same regard. Outside SOM its not as much a problem, witness Tao; faith practically absent reason. Even in Christianity we see these West/East SOM difference between RC and OC Christian churches especially as it pertains to "explaining" inexplicables where RC tries to, OC does not, leaving inexplicables to remain so.) MP ---- "Don't believe everything you think." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
