nice khoo, yes zmm is quite clear on the 'system', any 'system' from the get go. the system or us...the system or the earth...the system is the giant's labyrinth. systemic thinking places the abstract (static) before immediate reality (dynamic)...it is immoral in the moq. but can we make the shift from knowing the logic of this relationship to living it? can we integrate this? must we? if so, how?
" a business model that routinely produced a similar kind of remoteness and thoughtlessness, compounded by a widespread abrogation of individual moral judgment." is it therefore immoral to participate in this model? can we fix the model or is 'model' just a synonym for 'system'? who invented the businessman? --- On Sun, 22/3/09, Khoo Hock Aun <[email protected]> wrote: From: Khoo Hock Aun <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] The Brujo To: [email protected] Received: Sunday, 22 March, 2009, 7:10 PM “*Be the change you want to see in the world*.” - Gandhi Gav, Interesting point about "that half naked fakir" Gandhi being the cosmic counterpoint to Hitler. At a time when everyone is seeking answers from without, do they realise the unthinking way they go around being part of a whole system, and how they contribute to the system's existence in the first place. Everyone who is rattling at the cages now has been culpable; and they can't expect to be absolved just because the system required them to do so. For an interesting comparison between Wall Street and Nazi War criminals, Businessweek has an recent article : http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/mar2009/ca20090319_591214.htm What is at fault is " a business model that routinely produced a similar kind of remoteness and thoughtlessness, compounded by a widespread abrogation of individual moral judgment." Its either the system, or its us. Which is it to be ? Rgds Khoo Hock Aun On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:12 PM, gav <[email protected]> wrote: > > hi dan, thanks for that story. > > i am more on walter's side re: astrology. not inferring causative > relations, just saying everything's an analogue all the way down and > up...think the stars and planets are 'out there'? > > been thinking about another brujo - the biggest brujo of them all in modern > times: gandhi. he provided the cosmic balance to hitler. he kicked the > british out of india by being a peasant, by being honest, by being brave, by > refusing to hate anything and by being very very smart. he was after all a > distinguished attorney. > > we see nowadays a situation that seems hopeless to us (does to me a lot > anyway) but if one man can free 700 million indians...how can we not > succeed? > > what i am getting at is that we need to learn this lesson. gandhi > SUCCEEDED.he succeeded because he strategically outhought the empire and > because he was real, normal - humble. because he had nothing! > > he never reflected back the violence that the british showed him and the > indian people. and when violence was shown by indians he refused to accept > and fasted til he died or they stopped. > > the simple truth of gandhi's victory seems salient today - non-cooperation. > it is simple, it is direct, it is non-violent but it is not passive - it is > very very active. the english could not govern india without the consent of > the indians - so simple. and when they withdrew their co-operation india > stopped. and no amount of brutality could deflect their collective spirit. > 'you can break my bones, even kill me but then you will only have my dead > body - not my obedience' > > what is our empire? what is our raj? well to return to that cosmic twin of > gandhi's - hitler, we see the picture emerge. hitler won. we have to face > that truth. we live in a totalitarian world, a fascist world. this is the > fact of the matter. the empire is everywhere and primarily it is in our > heads. > > our occupying power is the giant's voice that occupies our minds. we are > all occupied, to a greater or lesser extent. no man is an island. we cannot > free ourselves without everyone being free. > > no one is free: not the slave, not the master. as long as division remains > we have only the totality of global fascism, not the unity of a sane world. > > we are all clinically insane. fact. we do things everyday that destroy the > very things we need to live. we destroy, we acquiesce, daily we are our own > police. we are fucking nuts man. we are rearranging deckchairs on the > titanic. > > unless....unless we are choosing destruction. unless we are actively > choosing this total nihilism, a sort of trance in which we mortify ourselves > and the world....in an effort to shake a metaphysical fist at an uncaring > universe or a vengeful god. > > nihilism. that's the problem, metaphysically speaking. pirsig is one of the > solutions to it. > > so what to do? what does non-co-operation mean for us today? does it mean > refusing to participate in destroying the earth? does it mean to refuse to > accept violence, injustice - anywhere in the world? does it mean the > transcendence of nihilism? a sort of positive nihilism in which we reveal > the values of our universe through our actions with others in it? the > solidarity of the earth. > > perhaps, like gandhi, it means giving up money? > > perhaps we need an 'earth day'; a day when we don't work, drive, buy, use > fossil fuels. a day of just giving the earth a break. maybe this day would > show us how easy it is to stop the machine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. > Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > -- [email protected] 6016-301 4079 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. 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