> [Krimel] > The answer to that is so patently obvious it hardly deserves. > consideration We strive to survive because we are descended from > survivors. It really is that simple. We have built into our DNA > mechanisms, urges, emotions and needs that facilitate our survival. > Those who do not have this inbred need do not survive. > The questions is idiotic. It's like asking why don't we > breath water? Survival is the imperative of all living things. Without > it there would be no living things.
[Platt] A great non-answer. As Pirsig asked, "If life is strictly a result of the physical and chemical forces of nature then why is life opposed to these same forces in its struggle to survive?" Krimel's thoughtful answer, "Don't ask." [Krimel] I didn't say, "Don't ask." I said the answer is... It is the very elegance and simplicity of the answer that makes it beautiful. We have the will to survive because we are the offspring of survivors. It is built into our nature as links in the great chain of being. We are NOT opposed to physical and chemical forces, We exist because of them and because they form static patterns. It is the very stasis of those physical and chemical forces that allows us to exploit the DQ that flows amongst those static patterns. The fact of those static forces that allows life to thrive in this place at this time, > [Kirmel] > > They also give the lie to the view you and Platt champion of the > > triumph of the individual over the evil forces of society. > > [Platt] > Check out individual vs. society rights in the U.S. Constitution. Also > review the standard of living provided by individualistic capitalism vs. > collectivist economic systems. > > [Krimel] > As you ought to know there is very little talk about individual rights > in the constitution itself. That is why the Bill of Rights was added. > In case you haven't read the Preamble recently here it is: > > "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect > union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for > the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the > blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish > this Constitution for the United States of America." > > Notice the plurals? We the People. In order to secure our rights ban > together collectively to provide the COMMON defense and promote the > GENERAL welfare... This is a statement of our collective duties and social > responsibilities. There is not one word about capitalism in the entire > document. The only way to read the Constitution as a Capitalist Manifesto > is through an activist interpretation that violates the doctrine of > original intent. I am shock to hear you advance such a notion. [Platt] Just for your information, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution. "Freedom of speech; freedom of assembly, of travel; trial by jury; habeas corpus; government by consent-these "human rights" are all intellect-vs.- society issues." (Lila, 24) [Krimel] The Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. Of course they are part of it but they were not part of the original document. But these are not intellect vs. society issues; they are individual vs. society issues. They are about the balance between individual rights and social responsibility. Perhaps this is why you tend to confuse the intellectual level with what you imagine to be an individual level. As an intellectual exercise the constitution is every bit as much about society as it is about the individual. It is an intellectual approach to resolving the tension between society and the individual. [Platt] Right, a social structure that supports individual freedom/responsibility, private property, free markets and protection from biological crime. As for absence of regulation leading to depression, you are woefully ignorant of history. Just for starters dude, you might want to check the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977. [Krimel] I have no interest in the minutia of this or that piece of legislation. The point is that government, any and every government, is all about parsing freedom and duty. It is certainly not the business of our government to promote or protect free markets. Where do you find that in the Constitution? American politics have always been linked to capitalism often with disastrous results but nothing in our form of government demands or endorses a particular economic system. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
