Hi KO,
It's always easy to find controversy in the spiritual teachers. They are
obviously fringe, and dealt with in that way. However, the teachings
can always be separated from the person. Perhaps they are able to
grasp concepts of group consciousness, and act just as a medium. This
is not to say that deceit does not exist in this sector. I have "Krishnamurti
to Himself - His last Journal", which he recorded at Pine
Cottage. I sometimes read
it randomly to give me something to think about as I fall asleep.
The only book I don't like of Huxley's is the Doors of Perception. I think he
made a little bit too much of his trips. But with a mind like his,
I guess that is
what happens.
Cheers,
Willblake2
On Apr 10, 2009, at 7:03:49 AM, "kieffer odigaunt"
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marsha and Will,
Krishnamurti's ideas have always appealed to me because of his lack of dogma
and totally pragmatic approach. As part of his call for the individual to
take responsibility ('You are the World') he many times talked about the
possibility that the very structure of the brain can change. I am reading a
book lately:- The Brain that Changes Itself - about recent advances in
Neuro-plasticity; it seems Krishnamurti was right and it adds gives more
credibility to the transformational 'Process' as he called it that he
underwent at Ojai. Perhaps he had found a way to apprehend dynamic quality
more clearly than the rest of us.
His affair with the wife of his editorial manager 'Lives in the Shadow With
J Krishnamurti' written by her daughter, although very controversial in no
way detracts from the importance of what Krishnamurti advised.
Aldous Huxley (along with John Dewey) was another famous pupil of
F.M.Alexander and even based one of the characters of his novel 'Eyeless in
Gaza' on Alexander. Huxley died from cancer of the tongue whilst under the
effects of LSD.
-KO
2009/4/10 MarshaV <[email protected]>
>
> Greetings Will,
>
> I've been to Ojai many times, and can close my eyes and picture the ride
> there. Beautiful! You don't own the yard with the mower as lawn ornament,
> do you?
>
> The topic of Krishnamurit's life has come up before. I read a biography a
> very long time ago. Someone in this forum mentioned he was having an affair
> with his brother's wife. I do not care to make any judgements on his
> character. I saw him speak in an auditorium at Madison Square Garden. When
> he finished speaking he just got up and left the stage. It was very
> strange. I read 'Think On These Things' many, many years ago, It might have
> been my first reading of a metaphysical type, and have been curious to
> reread it. Also I want to read the dialogues between he and David Bohm as a
> way to acquaint myself with David Bohm.
>
> After listening to the In Our Times, 'Brave New World', and hearing the
> discussion concerning Aldus Huxley, I'd have to say he was just another
> brujo. It was a depressing IOT program.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:22 AM 4/10/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Marsha,
>>
>> If you want to get a historical perspective on Krishnamurti, and how he
>> was brought up through the religion of theosophy, read "Madam
>> Blavatsky's Baboon". It is an enjoyable read although somewhat
>> biased. Oh, and Aldus Huxley hung out a little with Krishnamurti, here in
>> Ojai, near where I live.
>>
>> Willblake2
>>
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2009, at 3:34:46 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060916095
>>
>>
>> Krishnamurti:
>>
>> Would you like to discuss with you the problem of freedom. It
>> is a very complex problem, needing deep study and understanding. We
>> hear much talk about freedom, religious freedom, and the freedom to
>> do what one would like to do. Volumes have been written on all this
>> by scholars. But I think we can approach it very simply and directly,
>> and perhaps that will bring us to the real solution.
>>
>> I wonder if you have ever stopped to observe the marvellous
>> glow in the west as the sun sets, with the shy young moon just over
>> the trees? Often at that hour the river is very calm, and then
>> everything is reflected on its surface: the bridge, the train that
>> goes over it, the tender moon, and presently, as it grows dark, the
>> stars. It is all very beautiful. And to observe, to watch, to give
>> your whole attention to something beautiful, your mind must be free
>> of preoccupations, must it not? It must not be occupied with
>> problems, with worries, with speculations. It is only when the mind
>> is very quiet that you can really observe, for then the mind is
>> sensitive to extraordinary beauty; and perhaps here is a clue to our
>> problem of freedom.
>>
>> Now, what does it mean to be free? Is freedom a matter of doing
>> what happens to suit you, going where you like, thinking what you
>> will? This you do anyhow. Merely to have independence, does that mean
>> freedom? Many people in the world are independent, but very few are
>> free. Freedom implies great intelligence, does it not? To be free is
>> to be intelligent, but intelligence does not come into being by just
>> wishing to be free; it comes into being only when you begin to
>> understand your whole environment, the social, religious, parental
>> and traditional influences that are continually closing in on you.
>> But to understand the various influences - the influence of your
>> parents, of your government, of society, of the culture to which you
>> belong, of your beliefs, your gods and superstitions, of the
>> tradition to which you conform unthinkingly - to understand all these
>> and become free from them requires deep insight; but you generally
>> give in to them because inwardly you are frightened. You are afraid
>> of not having a good position in life; you are afraid of what your
>> priest will say; you are afraid of not following tradition, of not
>> doing the right thing. But freedom is really a state of mind in which
>> there is no fear or compulsion, no urge to be secure.
>>
>> Don't most of us want to be safe? Don't we want to be told what
>> marvellous people we are, how lovely we look, or what extraordinary
>> intelligence we have? Otherwise we would not put letters after our
>> names. All that kind of thing gives us self-assurance, a sense of
>> importance. We all want to be famous people - and the moment we want
>> to be something, we are no longer free.
>>
>> Please see this, for it is the real clue to the understanding
>> of the problem of freedom. Whether in this world of politicians,
>> power, position and authority, or in the so-called spiritual world
>> where you aspire to be virtuous, noble, saintly, the moment you want
>> to be somebody you are no longer free. But the man or the woman who
>> sees the absurdity of all these things and whose heart is therefore
>> innocent, and therefore not moved by the desire to be somebody - such
>> a person is free. If you understand the simplicity of it you will
>> also see its extraordinary beauty and depth.
>>
>> After all, examinations are for that purpose: to give you a
>> position, to make you somebody. Titles, position and knowledge
>> encourage you to be something. Have you not noticed that your parents
>> and teachers tell you that you must amount to something in life, that
>> you must be successful like your uncle or your grandfather? Or you
>> try to imitate the example of some hero, to be like the Masters, the
>> saints; so you are never free. Whether you follow the example of a
>> Master, a saint, a teacher, a relative, or stick to a particular
>> tradition, it all implies a demand on your part to be something; and
>> it is only when you really understand this fact that there is freedom..
>>
>> The function of education, then, is to help you from childhood
>> not to imitate anybody, but to be yourself all the time. And this is
>> a most difficult thing to do: whether you are ugly or beautiful,
>> whether you are envious or jealous, always to be what you are, but
>> understand it. To be yourself is very difficult, because you think
>> that what you are is ignoble, and that if you could only change what
>> you are into something noble it would be marvellous; but that never
>> happens. Whereas, if you look at what you actually are and understand
>> it, then in that very understanding there is a transformation. So
>> freedom lies, not in trying to become something different, nor in
>> doing whatever you happen to feel like doing, nor in following the
>> authority of tradition, of your parents, of your guru, but in
>> understanding what you are from moment to moment.
>>
>> You see, you are not educated for this; your education
>> encourages you to become something or other - but that is not the
>> understanding of yourself. Your `self' is a very complex thing; it is
>> not merely the entity that goes to school, that quarrels, that plays
>> games, that is afraid, but it is also something hidden, not obvious.
>> It is made up, not only of all the thoughts that you think, but also
>> of all the things that have been put into your mind by other people,
>> by books, by the newspapers, by your leaders; and it is possible to
>> understand all that only when you don't want to be somebody, when you
>> don't imitate, when you don't follow - which means, really, when you
>> are in revolt against the whole tradition of trying to become
>> something. That is the only true revolution, leading to extraordinary
>> freedom. To cultivate this freedom is the real function of education.
>>
>> Your parents, your teachers and your own desires want you to be
>> identified with something or other in order to be happy, secure. But
>> to be intelligent, must you not break through all the influences that
>> enslave and crush you?
>>
>> The hope of a new world is in those of you who begin to see
>> what is false and revolt against it, not just verbally but actually.
>> And that is why you should seek the right kind of education; for it
>> is only when you grow in freedom that you can create a new world not
>> based on tradition or shaped according to the idiosyncrasy of some
>> philosopher or idealist. But there can be no freedom as long as you
>> are merely trying to become somebody, or imitate a noble example.
>> (TOTT, pp.12-15)
>>
>>
>>
>> ..
>> _____________
>>
>> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the
>> stars..........
>> ..
>> ..
>>
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>
> .
> _____________
>
> Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars..........
> .
> .
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