Hi Marsha, Yes, there is no true me either, but I'm not there yet. Sometimes I can get that complete feeling of Emptiness which must be how I felt before I was born or how I'll feel after I'm dead. It's a great feeling, and because of it, I've completely lost the fear of death.
Science does not know anything, Science is not a knowing being. Science is what happens when we try to manipulate our environment. Science is touching bath water to see if it is hot. Science is learning not to eat mushrooms. Science is peering into space and wondering what the lights are. What you describe is not science, it's human nature. Humans manufacture desire. Human need creates public manipulation. What you describe is the human condition. To blame it on science is to pretend that you are not a part of it, somebody else's fault. "It's not my fault that I like the products of science, I've been manipulated". We are a society of whining victims. Problems with profit? Then you are in the wrong country. The reason you have a computer, car, and ipod is due to "profit driven". There is nothing to trust in science. What you don't trust is your fellow man. Science is just a tool. Do you trust your hammer? Willblake2 On Apr 22, 2009, at 12:57:39 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: Greetings Will, There is no true me. (T)ruth is the discovery that I am false. Yes? I just want it to be understood clearly,neutrinos and oxytocin aside, that Science has investigated and studied how to manufacture desire, manufacture the "wanting", public manipulation; advertising and propaganda, baloney and garbage, are the child of Science too. For a metaphysics that is suppose to be grounded in Radical Empiricism and Pragmaticism, how is one suppose to act on information created by Science when it cannot be experienced and is profit-driven? Trust? Is this an unimportant question? Maybe this should be answered by those who want to say that Scientific patterns are more than just conceptual constructs. What does Science know, and how does it know it? Marsha At 02:46 AM 4/22/2009, you wrote: >Hi Marsha, > >I don't remember using polluting in the traditional sense, >but yes, computers, ipods, and automobiles are polluting >your spirit. And no, I am not a preacher. Your spirit is what >is left when you take everything outside of you away. And by >"you" I do not mean your body (that is also outside of you), I >mean the true you. > >Science pollutes as much as anything else. > >Willblake2 > > >On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:29:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >At 10:51 PM 4/20/2009, you wrote: > >Hi Marsha, > > > >No, it's not the warm body. It's our need to satisfy an inner longing > >with objects out there. Were people happy before ipods?, before computers, > >before cars? This appetite is insatiable by definition. We can never get > >enough from out there to satisfy what is within, but we keep trying. > >Greetings Will, > >It amazes me that you want to point to my use of >an automobile, computer and iPod polluting, but >you don't not want to acknowledge how Science >pollutes. JfC, you are amazing!!! > > > > The U.S. > >is probably the most extreme in this case, God > >is gone, and there is nothing to > >replace it. I am not religious, but I do > >believe in spirituality that arrises from > >within. > >God and religion are great at keeping people from >asking questions, it is understandable that you might mourn the loss. > > > > So, if you drive a car, use the computer, and have an ipod (I am now pretty > >certain of the latter two), you are part of the > >problem. This country revolves > >around what people want (or at least what they are told they want), you too. > >And the "science" that manufactures the wanting is also to be ignored!!! > > > >This is my opinion, of course. > > > >Cheers, > >Willblake2 > > > >Marsha > > > > > > >On Apr 20, 2009, at 2:28:23 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >At 02:16 AM 4/20/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > > > >I believe there is pure science and applied > > >science. It takes a lot of money to conduct > > >science these days. We are also in a capitalist > > >system where everything needs to be justified by > > >return on investment. Because of this, science > > >today is mainly applied science. I hear screams > > >of anguish from the tax payer when goldfish > > >behavior is being funded.. It is all so money > > >driven. I have worked in science for many > > >years, and find some of the joy is removed by > > >the "bottom line". That is not to say that > > >science does not provide comfort in many > > >cases. But I would agree that the greed of our > > >system, our insecurity, and need for pleasure, > > >has brought out the demon in science. This is > > >everybody's fault, you too Marsha. > > > >Will, > > > >Because I have a warm body? Because I have a > >computer and love my iPod? Please do explain how > >it is my fault. Isn't that like blaming the > >chickens for the fox eating them? > > > >Marsha > > > > > > > > >It is a hard balance, for me, to work my > > >profession in biotechnology science and maintain > > >a spiritual outlook. Science has become a > > >manipulative tool that seems very short > > >sighted. I work daily, in my job, to try to > > >mitigate the current pleasure principle of > > >science, with reason. There are some of out > > >there working behind the scenes to try to temper > > >the irrational product oriented nature of the > > >business. In the end, it may have always > been way out of our control anyway. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Willblake2 > > > > > > > > >On Apr 18, 2009, at 6:30:16 PM, "david buchanan" > > ><[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >Marsha said to Krimel: Calling my statements > > >"bitching" and "silly" doesn't address the > > >issues I raise. Bacon is a man who stated that > > >Nature needed to be tortured for her to give up her secrets. Come on... > > >dmb says: > > >Yea, come on Krimel. The myth of the mad > > >scientist has been in the popular imagination > > >for a couple centuries now. From Frankenstein's > > >monster to Darth Vader, the fears inspired by > > >science and technology have taken the shape of > > >monsters and villians. Even Kafkaesque > > >nightmares about inhuman bureaucracies get at > > >this same fear of faceless, mechanical > > >rationality. Its no use pretending you don't > > >know what Marsha is talking about. > > >In the case of genetically modified crops, for > > >example, the corporations have introduced seeds > > >from which the farmer can not grow the next > > >generation of seeds. That way the farmer has to > > >buy new seeds each season. In the interest of > > >profit, they've engineered a dead seed. What if > > >this artificial mutation spreads to other > > >seed-bearing plants or even all seed-bearing > > >plants. What would be left on earth? Not us. The > > >chances are probably very small but with > > >consequences like that very small is way too big. > > >Its a cultural problem. Its bigger than science. > > >Its about a scientific world view, materialism, > > >reductionism and efficiency at the expense of > > >quality. Its about being overwhelmed and out of > > >balance. Its about loving power and control rather than peace of mind. > > >Pretending that Marsha is just making this stuff > > >up won't fly around here. Its the problem for > > >which ZAMM is the solution, you big snarky > > >square.. She's giving you all kinds of clues but > > >you just stick your fingers in your ears and > > sing "La La La". Its a dern shame. > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. > > >http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=T > > XT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > >Archives: > > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > >.. > >_____________ > > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.......... > >.. > >.. > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list > >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >Archives: > >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >. >_____________ > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... >. >. > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _____________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
