Krim, Andre, Ant, Arlo, This is what I said about Northrop when I read him back in 2003 "It was worth the difficult read. Pretty much a complete history of politics, law, religion, empire, invasion and philosophy of the whole world ever in one long book."
And there is no doubt Pirsig took a lot from Northrop (and honestly advertises the fact), so clearly understanding Northrop is highly relevant ... beyond Platt's propaganda ... or "talk-radio politics" as Arlo would say.. Northrop is much more than (enlightened) politics too, and a million miles from partisan politics. For example he wrote the introduction to the US Edition of Heisenberg's "Physics and Philosophy". "Free Markets" are a good thing in exactly the same way that evolution is a "good thing". That is "competition" is only half the story. Only the propagandists (on either side) turn "free market" into a morality-free free-for-all. Regards Ian On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Krimel <[email protected]> wrote: > Gentlemen, > > On the surface at least Northrop's book seems to be primarily about > international politics. It was written during the cold war and spoke to the > need for finding common cause among peoples of disparate colors and creeds. > I defer to Andre and Ant on the specifics of Northrop's politics but it is > clear that whatever they are Pirsig endorses Northrop wholeheartedly. In one > of Ant's videos Pirsig says that he is Northrop's disciple. Talking about > Northrop, particularly with regard to politics is hardly diverting attention > away from Pirsig. In fact it sheds light on the kind of dialog Pirsig is > having and the views he is commenting on. > > Krimel > > ========================================================= > > Hey Ant, > > I think Pirsig's answer to Andre's question is adequate and needs no further > elaboration. Pirsig is the best source for the MOQ. If you don't agree with > him fine and dandy. Just don't try to hide the fact that he plainly says > that free markets are superior to socialism by diverting attention to > another author. > > Regards, > Platt > > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Ant McWatt <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 8 May 2009 at 18:11, Andre Broersen wrote: >> >> > Platt to Andre: >> > You present a nice capsule summary of SOM philosophy supporting >> > America's free market culture, currently being challenged by an influx >> > of European socialist doctrine. Whether I hold to the static patterns >> > you cite as the basis for American culture is now more or less mute >> > because of the insights of the MOQ. As you know, it gives a new >> > basis for supporting free markets. >> > >> > Andre: >> > Hi Platt: Can you explain to me how Pirsig, or for that matter the MoQ >> > supports the 'American free market culture' when it is grounded in: >> > 1) the subjective egocentric religious doctrine of Protestantism and the >> > individualistic political doctrine, grounded in Descartes, Malebranche, >> and >> > Locke's conception of a person as a mental substance, and >> > 2) the laissez-faire economic theory formulated by Adam Smith and > Jevons, >> > which rests in turn on Locke, Hume and Bentham.? >> > (I know some cosmetics have been applied to the above theories [e.g >> Keynes] >> > but they are still rock solid). >> > >> > I always thought that the MoQ rejected theism and subject/object >> > analyses and that it rejected the existence of a value-free >> > scientific/atomistic/amoral rationality upon which the philosophies of >> point >> > 2 in the above are grounded. >> >> >> Platt then evaded the question May 8th: >> >> Pirsig presents his reasons for supporting free market capitalism in >> Chapter >> 17 of Lila. To answer your question I suggest you read what he wrote > there. >> >> >> Ant McWatt suggests: >> >> To give a proper response to Andre's excellent question, I suggest that > you >> first read F.S.C. Northrop's "The Meeting of East and West" (the book that >> set Pirsig on the road to the MOQ) and try again. This is meant to be a >> philosophy forum not a propaganda vessel for failed neo-conservative >> economic policies (and God how they have failed in the last year)! >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
