Marsha,
The small self is lonely and cold, causing rationalization which
uses dialectic
and analytic, that which creates the concept of the small self using
it to escape
the paradox creates fictions of reduction of eternal absolute
unchanging origin
simply because it only deals in absolute wholes (which do not exist in nature
except in our minds) see: "Parmenides" once one rationalizes down to
something and nothing the analytic conclusion is that something simply
can not originate from nothing. this is simply a limit of the analytic method
not the true nature of the universe.
The problem is measurement, measurements must be of the nature of a
complete static wholes
in order to be usefully calculated in abstractions. But reality is
constantly changing, therefore
measurement may never be a fixed whole unit...but....the limit of
the round was invented, an
axiom of the mean. Which for calculation purposes serves well, but
it is a static fixed abstraction
of infinite measurement of constant flux.
Therefore rationalizing using analytic logic will only ever be a
static limited mean of a dynamic
interrelative universe. Using it to make sense of the MoQ will
allways be a case of the dog chasing his own tail.
It feels comfortable and right to use it because that is how we were
raised to understand things
everything we know is predicated on it, we define intellect by it's
use, our culture is built on it.
This is the hurdle.
-Ron
________________________________
From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:17:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Is it serious?
Hi Ron,
Exactly! That's how I see it. I am most curious, though, what Ham
thinks is the real self. Some of his statements I could agree with,
but not as an independent self. - But maybe Ham is not responding
to my posts? Maybe I've been too acrimonious. I suppose sugar and
spice, and everything nice isn't one of my active patterns.
Marsha
At 08:02 AM 5/20/2009, you wrote:
>Threre is the cultural self, the small self. The self assumed in
essentialism
>The self concieved as isolated and distinct from the environment.
>
>This self is the self which does not exist as it is commonly percieved.
>This self is the one molded by culture, a culture built on the
assumptions of
>an objective reality viewed by a subjective observer, seperate and distinct,
>independant, subject to the boundaries of that culture. The one predicated
>in the noun "I" a static substantive of the verb "to be".
>
>Then
>
>There is awareness, an awareness dependant and emergent from
>the environment, the large self, the one which is boundless and ever
>changing.
>
>To confuse the two as one, leads to paradox, thats when we look for it
>in nuerons and synapses and find it lacking, thats when we look for it
>by rationalizing and inventing purpose and origin.
>
>A "radical metaphysics" is a metaphysic of the development
>of the large self of awareness one of your own private expereince.
>The large self is Quality, the small self is the subjective observer
>in an objective universe, the large self IS the universe, aware.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:59:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [MD] Is it serious?
>
>
>Will,
>
>I do not see any problems with the MOQ as it is, it is perfect. The
>conflict seems to be one of interpretation and getting caught within
>the patterns. imho. I love your last paragraph, it is wonderful,
>but I could be content being the moon.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>At 11:22 PM 5/19/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> >I hadn't thought of the words in that way before.
> >
> >Nice.
> >
> >Yes, letting go of self, of the ego, of self consciousness. The
attainment
> >of truth, liberation, as the Upanishads, Buddha, Taoism, Zen, would all
> >claim. I believe in that and am working towards that too.
> >
> >I would seem from recent interpretations of MoQ (which is obviously
> >still in the making) that such release is not consistent with this
> >philosophy. In fact the claim is we are subject to group behavior
> >not individual expression.
> >
> >But, as Pirsig has said in interviews, MoQ is waiting for the next
> >independent thinker, to carry it along. It would seem Pirsig is
> >waiting as well. Plato had his academy, current philosophies have
> >the Internet. Much more powerful and capable of generating
> >a synthesis of ideas, and even new ones, if there is actually
> >something new under the sun. What an opportunity!
> >
> >Me, I want to live from the inside out, not the outside in; I want to
> >radiate, not absorb, , I wantto be a sun, not a black hole, I want to be
> >responsible, not a victim. All this can result from freedom
> >of the confining, needing, ego, "grasping and clinging" as a
> >translation of the early writers of Buddha's teachings would stress.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Willblake2
> >
> >On May 18, 2009, at 12:58:47 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Hello Will,
> >
> >The song 'Suicide is Painless' seems to be perfect to accompany your
> >Alan Watts piece. It is about life and very playful For me, it's
> >always been about the suicide of the ego, 'and I and take or leave
> >it, if I please', and 'The sword of time will pierce our skins'. The
> >reference to time is ego. It seems full Buddhist wisdom relating to
> >pain and suffering, and letting go. I bet Alan Watts would have
> >loved the song.
> >
> >Here are the lyrics:
> >
> >Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be
> >The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate
> >Without that ever-present hate but now I know that it's too late,
> >and . . .That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The game of life is hard to play. I'm gonna lose it anyway.
> >The losing card I'll someday lay so this is all I have to say.
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The only way to win is cheat and lay it down before I'm beat,
> >and to another give my seat for that's the only painless feat.
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The sword of time will pierce our skins it doesn't hurt when it begins
> >But as it works its way on in the pain grows stronger . . . watch it
> >grin, but . . .
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key
> >'Is it to be or not to be' and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >And you can do the same thing if you choose.
> >____
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 5/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >Bring back so many memories. Thanks for that, it made my day!
> > >
> > >Willblake2
> > >
> > >
> > >On May 17, 2009, at 10:33:51 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >An analogy with music, my favorite song:
> > >
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yc52NckGLs
> > >
> > >
> > >Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:20 PM 5/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Grab a cup of coffee, relax, spend 9 minutes with Alan Watts "Is
> > > it serious?"
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asqd1H4IluQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeoxy%
> > > 2Eorg%2Fvidplay%3Fv%3Dasqd1H4IluQ&feature=player_embedded
> > > >
> > > >Willblake2
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >.
> >_____________
> >
> >The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
> >interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
> >static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
> >
> >.
> >.
> >
> >
> >
> >Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>
>
>.
>_____________
>
>The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
>interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
>static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
>
>.
>.
>
>
>
>Moq_Discuss mailing list
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.
_____________
The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
.
.
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