[Willblake2] Confucianism is about morality, bro'. We would do well to practice Confucianism in this age rather than Confusionism.
[Krimel] Uh, yeah. It is morality... like how to act... a code of conduct... It is to Judiasm as the Greeks are to the Taoists [Willblake2] Dude, Maya is everything that is perceived by our senses. It becomes embodied as symbols in our need for duality. Do you want to put Quality in a Jar too? Much of these posts are about putting it into a box. There is nothing confusing about Maya. Just read about it. [Krimel] In a box? In a jar? If they're put there, There they are. I'm confused about Maya? Well, Maya's confused about me. They call me Mellow Yellow. And your advice is to read about it? Oh yeah, that'll help... On May 20, 2009, at 7:44:56 PM, Krimel <[email protected]> wrote: [Krimel] I think you are confusing Confucianism with somethingelseism. Confucianism is about action not insight. Confucianism is a code of conduct. I wouldn't know a Diamond Sutrian from Primitive Baptist. But I'll tell you this, I don't care who says you can I think you can't be free of Maya. Freedom from Maya is death. I say, who wants that? Along time ago Case said this: Maya, Lordy how you glow. Maya, Lordy how you glow. But like a firefly a flickerin', You're so hard to get to know. Maya, I'd like to put you in a jar. Maya, I'd like to put you in a jar. Tie you up in ribbons, Show my friends how bright you are. But Maya, it's so hard to get to you. Maya, it's so hard to get to you. You just flutter off to nowhere, Go on doin' like you do. Maya, you leave me with no clues. Oh Maya I don't have the slightest clue. I just standing in the garden Netting Agnostic Hindu Blues. -----Original Message----- From: markhsmit [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] Is it serious? Hi Marsha, I think you are confusing Buddhism with Confucianism. Read the Diamond Sutra to get what Buddhism is all about. There is not self, in Buddhism, it is an extension of the Upanishad Hinduism. Freedom from Maya. Cheers, Willblake2 On May 20, 2009, at 12:06:25 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: Greetings Ham, I do not know where your knowledge of Buddhism comes from, but Buddhism, at its core, is all about 'know thyself', and all about insight, and all about morality. A smart man knows what he does not know. Marsha At 01:17 AM 5/20/2009, you wrote: >Hi WillBlake -- > > >>Yes, letting go of self, of the ego, of self consciousness. >>The attainment of truth, liberation, as the Upanishads, Buddha, >>Taoism, Zen, would all claim. I believe in that and am working >>towards that too. >> >>It would seem from recent interpretations of MoQ (which is >>obviously still in the making) that such release is not consistent >>with this philosophy. In fact the claim is we are subject to >>group behavior not individual expression. > >Sad but true. One has to acknowledge the self of consciousness >before he can let go of it. >Relegating ego and consciousness to a collective intellect is a step >in the opposite direction. It denies the very self that seeks >liberation and truth -- even the freedom to choose that path. For >if there is no knowing 'I' to realize truth, if we have surrendered >the subjective self to the objective universe, what is there left to liberate? > >>But, as Pirsig has said in interviews, MoQ is waiting for the next >>independent thinker, to carry it along. It would seem Pirsig is >>waiting as well. Plato had his academy, current philosophies have >>the Internet. Much more powerful and capable of generating >>a synthesis of ideas, and even new ones, if there is actually >>something new under the sun. What an opportunity! > >There's nothing new under the sun, but there is much to be revealed >about existence if we don't approach it with a closed >mind. Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living." But >introspection is meaningless to those who deny the insight it can >afford us. How often has Science been accused in this forum of >failing to answer ultimate questions? Yet, the same voices are >quick to demean spirituality and metaphysical insight as mythical >remnants of an unenlightened age. > >Psychiatrist Richard Schain has written: >"The tendency to neglect the metaphysical aspect of human life has >always existed in the history of mankind but no era has so >depreciated and disparaged metaphysics as the current >one. Metaphysics is relegated to the realm of scholarly study or >traditional religions where it exists in a tethered, tradition-bound >form of little use to those seeking to develop their position in the >universe. ... > >"'...[T]he essential feature in the life of an individual is his >valuation of his interior self, i.e. his subjective self. There is >no greater tragedy than the failure of an individual to realize this >value. What hinders this development, however, is the modern view >that there is no such thing as the self, that there is only a >complex arrangement of synapses and neurons in the brain, giving >rise to the illusion of self. Without a belief in the metaphysical >self, humans are at the mercy of their environment, which in the >present age fares little for the development of an interior >self. Only a radical metaphysics will save the individual from >drowning in the swamps of the materialist dogmas of contemporary society." > -- [R. Schain: "Toward a Radical Metaphysics"] > >>Me, I want to live from the inside out, not the outside in; I want to >>radiate, not absorb. . . I want to be a sun, not a black hole, I want >>to be responsible, not a victim. All this can result from freedom >>of the confining, needing, ego, "grasping and clinging" as a >>translation of the early writers of Buddha's teachings would stress. > >As agents of value, we are all potential "suns". But if we cease >desiring, as the Buddhists prescribe for "avoiding pain", we shut >off the value sensibility that connects us with our essential >source. That's retreating to a "black hole" existence in which >being-aware has no more meaning than the insentient rock and human >beings are pawns of biological evolution. > >We'll never understand man's place in the universe by pretending >that subjects and objects don't exist. > >I share your sentiments, Will. Thanks for giving me this >opportunity to reflect on them. > >Essentially yours, >Ham >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _____________ The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality. . . 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