On 25 May 2009 at 14:18, John Carl wrote: > > > > > > > > 57. In the MOQ time is dependent on experience > > > > independently of matter. Matter is a deduction from > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > So we just toss E=mc2 out the window? > > > > > > I think (unless it can be explained better to me) that the realization of > > > object precedes or arises with the realization of time. Time = change > > and > > > you can't have "change" without some"thing" changing. > > > > > > John > > > > My wife changes her mind all the time. :-) > > > > Platt > > > > > Well I thought about it a bit Platt, and I'm still confused. But not about > time and space. Heck, those are obvious. Just look at your watch and > glance around you. There. > I guess I'm confused about this thing called "metaphysics". You'd think > with years of discussion and a plain goal like Quality, there'd be plenty of > evidence of harmony and unity of thought. That's one of the purposes of > philosophy, is it not?
I think the main purpose of metaphysics is to uncover underlying premises about the nature of reality. For Pirsig the basic premise is "Experience (of value) is the starting point." (LC, Note 31) For Ham, the premise from which all else devolves is "Essence." For Schopenhauer, the ultimate is Beauty. For Krimel, all emerges from a physical base. Etc, etc. So long as basic premises remain in dispute, agreement will be a dream. Same holds for politics. > And yet something as plain and elementary as "time is independent of matter" > slips under the rug. I mean, my wife changes her mind too, but rationality > must prevail in the household. So where is it, hmm? I mean, I hope _you_ > are not going to tell me to go subjectively stimulate myself... Would I suggest such a thing? Perish the thought. Time -- like Quality, love and beauty -- is something we can't define or put in any place, but we know it when we experience it. "Change" and "time" are two sides of the same coin. They co-exist. An observation by Ken Wilber comes to mind: "We divide reality, forget we have divided it, the forget we have forgotten it." Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
