inflammitory: the willful attempt to incite hostility , anger or tumult.
________________________________
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 11:09:27 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Reductionism
Define "inflammatory." On the surface it appears to mean opinions you
don't like.
On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:25, X Acto wrote:
>
> Platt,
> Just to refresh your memory your original inflammitory post direct
> from the archives:
> [MD] Reductionismplattholden at gmail.com plattholden at gmail.com
> Mon Jun 1 07:46:08 PDT 2009
> * Previous message: [MD] Reductionism
> * Next message: [MD] Reductionism
> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
> On 1 Jun 2009 at 9:42, Krimel wrote:
>
> > [Marsha]
> > Systems thinking:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NCpdLKhY04&feature=related
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Thanks Marsha, that really was a simple and concise explanation. I hope you
> > will notice that I am almost always talking about systems. Platt has
> > explicitly criticized me and Ian for that at least as often as Dave has
> > accused me of be a reductionist. Notice what the guy says about engines and
> > spark plugs. He says, "What would you say if I told you I knew all about
> > spark plugs but nothing about engines?" This I think is what Dave is
> > accusing me of; focusing on spark plugs. But I don't see how anyone can
> > claim to know about engines if they know nothing about spark plugs. We can
> > know a lot about engines and what they do and how to operate them without
> > mentioning the parts involved. But to gain a deeper understand not only of
> > how to operate an engine but how it works and how to fix it we are going to
> > have to look at the parts.
> >
> > Engines are pluralistic. From the point of view of the engine operator the
> > parts are irrelevant, as long as the engine runs. When it stops running we
> > have to look for another point of view. It seems wrong to me to claim that
> > the operator's point of view is "better" because it is holistic and a
> > mechanics view is wrong because it is reductionistic and riddled with
> > philosophical error. After all mechanics can run the equipment too. There is
> > nothing about their knowledge of engine detail that stands in the way of
> > their holistic understanding of the value of engines. In fact the holist
> > view of the engine helps them tune the parts to make it function and
> > function better.
> >
> > This, I think, is the whole point of ZMM and Pirsig's take on the
> > romantic/classic split. The romantic may enjoy driving an elegantly designed
> > motorcycle but they will always be dependent on someone else to keep it
> > running. The classist can not only keep his cycle running but can write a
> > book about how all those motorcycle parts relate to everything from the open
> > road to western philosophy.
>
> Human beings are not spark plugs. That's the problem with systems
> thinking. Another word for it is collectivist thinking. It killed millions of
> human beings in the 20th century under fascist and communist regimes.
> Another example: eco-systems thinking banned DDT, killing millions in
> Africa.
>
> When you think of people as motors, jellyfish or state waves instead of
> individuals capable of responding to DQ, you not only get murderous
> governments, you get ideas like Bohm's that social "fragmentation" is
> bad. By contrast, it's believing that individual differences are good that
> provides the foundation of liberty.
>
> Systems thinking applied to human society is a recipe for disaster.
> We're witnessing its negative effects in the U.S. today as we are
> marched by egomaniacs down the road to serfdom.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
