Platt: Seems to me inflammatory is in the eye of the beholder. One man's inflammatory writing is another man's truth. Take the Koran, for example.
Ron: The difference is intent my freind, you intended to incite. And your statements are no where near the act of interpretation of a truth or fact. There are no truth or facts or anything supporting your statement, you refuse to or are unable to present them. This in itself negates your claim to interpretation. Reducing your arguement to an opinion based on untruths supported by distortions and semantics. Nice game you are playing, notice how you are using this debate to obscure the fact that you can not support your statements.? I have. what other games you have, or do you want to actually present an arguement. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 11:47:27 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Reductionism Seems to me inflammatory is in the eye of the beholder. One man's inflammatory writing is another man's truth. Take the Koran, for example. On 3 Jun 2009 at 8:20, X Acto wrote: > inflammitory: the willful attempt to incite hostility , anger or tumult. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 11:09:27 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Reductionism > > Define "inflammatory." On the surface it appears to mean opinions you > don't like. > > On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:25, X Acto wrote: > > > > > Platt, > > Just to refresh your memory your original inflammitory post direct > > from the archives: > > [MD] Reductionismplattholden at gmail.com plattholden at gmail.com > > Mon Jun 1 07:46:08 PDT 2009 > > * Previous message: [MD] Reductionism > > * Next message: [MD] Reductionism > > * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > ________________________________ > > > > On 1 Jun 2009 at 9:42, Krimel wrote: > > > > > [Marsha] > > > Systems thinking: > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NCpdLKhY04&feature=related > > > > > > [Krimel] > > > Thanks Marsha, that really was a simple and concise explanation. I hope > > > you > > > will notice that I am almost always talking about systems. Platt has > > > explicitly criticized me and Ian for that at least as often as Dave has > > > accused me of be a reductionist. Notice what the guy says about engines > > > and > > > spark plugs. He says, "What would you say if I told you I knew all about > > > spark plugs but nothing about engines?" This I think is what Dave is > > > accusing me of; focusing on spark plugs. But I don't see how anyone can > > > claim to know about engines if they know nothing about spark plugs. We can > > > know a lot about engines and what they do and how to operate them without > > > mentioning the parts involved. But to gain a deeper understand not only of > > > how to operate an engine but how it works and how to fix it we are going > > > to > > > have to look at the parts. > > > > > > Engines are pluralistic. From the point of view of the engine operator the > > > parts are irrelevant, as long as the engine runs. When it stops running we > > > have to look for another point of view. It seems wrong to me to claim that > > > the operator's point of view is "better" because it is holistic and a > > > mechanics view is wrong because it is reductionistic and riddled with > > > philosophical error. After all mechanics can run the equipment too. There > > > is > > > nothing about their knowledge of engine detail that stands in the way of > > > their holistic understanding of the value of engines. In fact the holist > > > view of the engine helps them tune the parts to make it function and > > > function better. > > > > > > This, I think, is the whole point of ZMM and Pirsig's take on the > > > romantic/classic split. The romantic may enjoy driving an elegantly > > > designed > > > motorcycle but they will always be dependent on someone else to keep it > > > running. The classist can not only keep his cycle running but can write a > > > book about how all those motorcycle parts relate to everything from the > > > open > > > road to western philosophy. > > > > Human beings are not spark plugs. That's the problem with systems > > thinking. Another word for it is collectivist thinking. It killed millions > > of > > human beings in the 20th century under fascist and communist regimes. > > Another example: eco-systems thinking banned DDT, killing millions in > > Africa. > > > > When you think of people as motors, jellyfish or state waves instead of > > individuals capable of responding to DQ, you not only get murderous > > governments, you get ideas like Bohm's that social "fragmentation" is > > bad. By contrast, it's believing that individual differences are good that > > provides the foundation of liberty. > > > > Systems thinking applied to human society is a recipe for disaster. > > We're witnessing its negative effects in the U.S. today as we are > > marched by egomaniacs down the road to serfdom. > > > > Platt > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
