On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:12, X Acto wrote: > > Platt, > > To view things as a baby and how Pirsig mentions, is to drop the stereotypes > > we hold and take a fresh new look. Like looking at the positives of > > socialism > > communism and capitalism and combine them to create a society that actually > > DOES value the individual, valuing individuals other than YOURSELF is > > socialism you know. > Platt: > What are the positives of socialism and communism? Is making other > individuals dependent on government for their welfare your idea of > "valuing" them? > > Ron: > No, and thats not the goal of either nor is it of capitalism. the Goal of all > is the > individual dedication to social Quality.
The goal of capitalism is sustain a free market and protect private property in the the pursuit of profits. Social Quality is the benefit, not the goal. (See Pirsig's comparison of capitalism vs. socialism.) > Ron prev: > > That is why I have a hard time understanding your dichotomy > > of value of the individual in society yet despise anything that has to do > > with it > > . You exalt the diversity of individuals yet despise multiculturalism > > when what you really despise is moral relativism, > > Platt: > Just in case you've forgotten, here's what Pirsig had to say about > multiculturism which demands we value all cultures equally: > > "Cultures can be graded and judged morally according to their > contribution to the evolution of life." (Lila, 24) > > Ron: > In case you have forgotten that is cultual relativism NOT multicultualism. > And Pirsig makes my point. Where does Pirsig make your point? (What is your point anyway?) As for the meaning of "multiculturism," this from Wikipedia: "I this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups, with no identifiable ethnical and/or religious culture treated as a single norm to which everyone has to adhere to." Note the phrase, "equitable status." > Ron prev: > > Pirsig gives us > > a way to make moral judgments without the typical stereotypes > > that hinder us from making Quality judgments or the paralysis > > of relativism. > > Platt: > Agree. > > Ron: > Then whats with all the fuss about multiculturalism? Multiculturism demands just the opposite. > Ron prev: > > I'll save you the effort of the > > Lila quote. > > > > In the veldt it's the individual that gets eaten first. United we stand, > > divided we fall. > > Safety in numbers. >Platt: > In what chapter in Lila will I find that quote? > > Ron: > The quote refers to the one you made previously above the one you appearently > agree with, please follow along. I made that quote previously? Better show me. > > Ron prev: > > The idea is to look at the Quality in everything Platt, this is what babies > > do. > > Platt: > Right. But Quality has a negative side, too. That's why among a baby's > first words is, "No!". > > Ron: > I agree Quality does have a negative side also expereinced without > stereotypes by babies, > Been awhile since you held a baby, toddlers say "no" because we teach them > the word "no". > during the terrible 2's they really exercise it. You bet they do. They know negative Quality when they see it. > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:56:24 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Think like a baby > > On 3 Jun 2009 at 6:29, X Acto wrote: > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:49:34 AM > > Subject: [MD] Think like a baby > > > > All: > > > > There's a book out called "The Philosophical Baby." The Boston Globe > > has an interesting review at: > > > > http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/04/26/inside_the > > _baby_mind/?page=full > > > > If you read it I think you'll be reminded of Pirsig's thoughts about the > > world as seen by babies in Chapter 9 of Lila. Perhaps you'll recall these > > words: > > > > "This, Phaedrus thought, was why little children are usually quicker to > > perceive Dynamic Quality than old people, why beginners are usually > > quicker than experts, why primitive people are sometimes quicker than > > those of "advanced" cultures." > > > > To perceive DQ -- isn't that our goal? The article suggests how we just > > might be able to do that more often. > > > > Regards, > > Platt > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
