Thanks Ron, I remember being really shocked when hearing that Fischl interview. - Marsha
At 11:30 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
Marsha, I think that is how the role of the artist has come to be percieved, but, I think a more accurate MoQ appraisel is to see the Artist as challenging static patterns of value whatever those patterns are, doing so opens up the possibility of defining new static patterns of Quality. I think pain and suffering is an issue because of how cultural norms today in a consumer driven economy tend to ignore them. -Ron ________________________________ From: MarshaV <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:15:17 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good. Hey Ron, The reason I ask is because I heard this great interview with Eric Fischl, CBC Ideas (11/16/08), who stated something like that. First I was shocked that he thought that was the role of an artist: to promote pain; and second, that he thought change only happened because of suffering. Marsha At 10:44 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote: >Ron, > >I'm curious... Do you think it is the role of the artist to make >culture uncomfortable? Maybe to emphasis suffering and to promote change? > > >Marsha > > > > > >At 10:17 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote: >>Platt, >>Interesting, I think what modern artists have done, since cubism, is >>challenge the ideal of what beauty is. True, we all value beauty but >>what is beautiful is being brought into question, challenging static >>patterns of value. >>I think what we see is not a degenerate form of beauty, but the results >>of the intellectual disconnect of value in an objectivly dominated society. >>The back lash of victorian attitudes of absolutism in objective forms. >>(Is'nt it nice how MoQ explains this?) >> >>As an Artist myself, the value of "shock Art" has become passe in my own >>and several of my peers opinions. >> >>-Ron >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] >>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:46:20 AM >>Subject: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good. >> >>All: >> >>In Chapter 22 of Lila, Pirsig laments the lack of quality in modern life: >> >>"In the time that Phaedrus grew up, intellect was dominant over >>society, but the results of the new social looseness weren't turning out as >>predicted. Something was wrong. The world was no doubt in better >>shape intellectually and technologically but despite that, somehow, the >>"quality" of it was not good. There was no way you could say why this >>quality was no good. You just felt it." >> >>An essay by Roger Scruton entitled "Beauty and Desecration" >>explains as well as anything I've read "why this quality was no good." >>The following excerpt suggests where to look for the answer: >> >>"But why is beauty a value? It is an ancient view that truth, goodness >>and beauty cannot, in the end, conflict. Maybe the degeneration of >>beauty into kitsch comes precisely from the postmodern loss of >>truthfulness, and with it the loss of moral direction. That is the message >>of such early modernists as Eliot, Barber and Stevens, and it is a >>message we need to listen to." >> >>Scruton traces the change in art from a goal of attaining beauty "as a >>way in which lasting moral and spiritual values acquire sensuous form" >>to art that aimed to "disturb, subvert, or transgress moral certainties." >> >>Scruton concludes, "We should take a lesson from this kind of >>(artistic) desecration: in attempting to show our human ideals are >>worthless, it shows itself to be worthless. And when something shows >>itself to be worthless, it is time to throw it way." >> >>Seems to me that is also a message from the MOQ. >> >>For Scruton's essay, please go to: >> >>http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_beauty.html >> >>Regards, >>Platt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>Archives: >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> >> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>Archives: >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > >_____________ > >"He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has." > (Friedrich von Schiller) > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _____________ "He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has." 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_____________ "He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has." (Friedrich von Schiller)
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