Ron,
I'm afraid I might be what you call a 'lone crackpot', a happy one.
Marsha
At 12:22 PM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
Marsha,
In Platts defence, some times it takes an individual to challenge
social norms to spark others to stand by their own convictions
"I'm Sparticus!" but it does require the shared sentiment of
the majority of the culture to revolutionize those norms, else
the indiviual is a lone crackpot.
-Ron
________________________________
From: MarshaV <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.
Platt,
The culture is a collection of individuals. If enough individuals
change (head, heart & hands), than so will the culture.
Marsha
At 11:44 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>Because the individual working on her motorcycle is influenced by her
>culture. If the culture supports beauty, her work is more likely to be
>beautiful. But, Pirsig is right. Changes in the cultural begin with an
>individual, and someone has to be first.
>
>Platt
>
>
>On 25 Jun 2009 at 10:16, MarshaV wrote:
>
> > Greetings Platt,
> >
> > Why is this concern, making beauty a cultural matter, of interest,
> > when from ZMM:
> >
> > "I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a
> > better place to live in, the way to do it is not with talk about
> > relationships of a political nature, which are inevitably dualistic,
> > full of subjects and objects and their relationship to one another;
> > or with programs full of things for other people to do. I think that
> > kind of approach starts it at the end and presumes the end is the
> > beginning. Programs of a political nature are important end products
> > of social quality that can be effective only if the underlying
> > structure of social values is right. The social values are right only
> > if the individual values are right. The place to improve the world is
> > first in one's own heart and head and hands, and then work outward
> > from there. Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of
> > mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think
> > that what I have to say has more lasting value."
> > (ZMM,Chapter 25)
> >
> >
> > Marsha
> >
>
> > At 08:46 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
> > >All:
> > >
> > >In Chapter 22 of Lila, Pirsig laments the lack of quality in
modern life:
> > >
> > >"In the time that Phaedrus grew up, intellect was dominant over
> > >society, but the results of the new social looseness weren't
> turning out as
> > >predicted. Something was wrong. The world was no doubt in better
> > >shape intellectually and technologically but despite that, somehow, the
> > >"quality" of it was not good. There was no way you could say why this
> > >quality was no good. You just felt it."
> > >
> > >An essay by Roger Scruton entitled "Beauty and Desecration"
> > >explains as well as anything I've read "why this quality was no good."
> > >The following excerpt suggests where to look for the answer:
> > >
> > >"But why is beauty a value? It is an ancient view that truth, goodness
> > >and beauty cannot, in the end, conflict. Maybe the degeneration of
> > >beauty into kitsch comes precisely from the postmodern loss of
> > >truthfulness, and with it the loss of moral direction. That is
the message
> > >of such early modernists as Eliot, Barber and Stevens, and it is a
> > >message we need to listen to."
> > >
> > >Scruton traces the change in art from a goal of attaining beauty "as a
> > >way in which lasting moral and spiritual values acquire sensuous form"
> > >to art that aimed to "disturb, subvert, or transgress moral
certainties."
> > >
> > >Scruton concludes, "We should take a lesson from this kind of
> > >(artistic) desecration: in attempting to show our human ideals are
> > >worthless, it shows itself to be worthless. And when something shows
> > >itself to be worthless, it is time to throw it way."
> > >
> > >Seems to me that is also a message from the MOQ.
> > >
> > >For Scruton's essay, please go to:
> > >
> > >http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_beauty.html
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Platt
>
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