Hi Krimel, I cry! I laugh! I am not one!
On 6/28/09 6:02 AM, "Krimel" <[email protected]> wrote: > Ron: > I think you misinterpret meaning as some have in your example. > > you stated nobel truths, as interpreted, contradicts this stance: > 1. Life means suffering. > 2. The origin of suffering is attachment. > 3. The cessation of suffering is attainable. > 4. The path to the cessation of suffering. > > Life is suffering > suffering is desire > the cessation of desire is attainable > it is the PATH to the cessation of suffering > > The PATH to cessation > means the cessation of life > since life is suffering > > [Krimel] > Maybe we are confusing some terms here or something but the path of > cessation winds its way through many lifetimes. Simply dying doesn't get you > off the hook with them. Every time you die, you respawn and start over. It > is a bit like life in my native Norrath. Isn't the Buddhist's long-term goal > is to achieve perma-death. It's like in Norrath when Sony cancels your > account and bans you from the game. Of course Buddhists have some > pretentious sounding Sanskrit name for it and it's more like instead of > banning you from the game they unplug the server. > > [Ron] > Socrates said the love of wisdom is the preperation > for death > > the preperation for death is the art of > the mastery of desire > the mastery of suffering > the mastery of life > the craft > of dying > > [Krimel] > Life is a game. > We all play to lose; > A coaster ride. > With every loops and spin > We risk chucking > Our lunch into our lap. > We scream and squeal > Our hearts race and > In the end > We are breathless. > > Call me a philistine but I'm with Dylan Thomas on this one: > > Do not go gentle into that good night, > Old age should burn and rave at close of day; > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > Though wise men at their end know dark is right, > Because their words had forked no lightning they > Do not go gentle into that good night. > > Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright > Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, > And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, > Do not go gentle into that good night. > > Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight > Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > And you, my father, there on the sad height, > Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray. > Do not go gentle into that good night. > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. > > ------------------------------------- > [Krimel] > But of course this is futile and just more "vanity." As the Old Testament > sage would say. > > Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come > not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in > them; > > While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor > the clouds return after the rain: > > In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men > shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those > that look out of the windows be darkened, > > And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding > is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters > of music shall be brought low; > > Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in > the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a > burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the > mourners go about the streets: > > Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the > pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. > > Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was... > > Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Krimel <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:48:26 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good. > > Dan: > Oh no I certainly didn't mean to imply that! I'm pretty sure Siddhartha > discovered for himself that living a life void of desire was not the middle > way. It was in fact extreme. > > [Krimel] > Excuse my intrusion but I think this point is central to Buddhist. The Four > Nobel Truths are: > > 1. Life means suffering. > 2. The origin of suffering is attachment. > 3. The cessation of suffering is attainable. > 4. The path to the cessation of suffering. > > As I understand this the path to enlightenment involved the elimination of > attachment or desire of any form. The middle way through this is not that > some desire is good and other desire is bad. All desire leads to suffering. > If you love someone it is your love that causes suffering when they die. > > [Dan] > Rather, what I was getting at is that there are positive desires and > negative desires. I think the Buddha might agree: it's not a feeling of > satisfaction, it's the positive or negative consequences that arise from > desire that provide a demarcation point. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.89/2197 - Release Date: 06/27/09 > 05:53:00 > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
