John,
First a quibble: [John] > there's no written language and thus no intellect Nope, because… [John] > …much of the American charter came from ideas gleaned from the way > Algonquin Indians governed themselves? …because the Algonquin Indians had no written language until 1663 when it was provided for them by whites. So the Algonquin Indians had ideas/intellect BEFORE they had a written language. [Craig, previously] > I see at least 4 complications: > 1) how to identify intellectual values > 2) how to distinguish high- from low- quality intellectual values > 3) how to determine whether an intellectual value can be forced > upon others or whether others can be forced to support it > 4) what to do if the choice is between a low-quality intellectual > value & a high-quality social value [John] > 1) Intellectual values - The Value of intellect is Truth. IMHO truth occurs at each level; REASON only at the intellectual level. (REASON is also a great magazine.) [John] > 4) Is "low-quality" the same as "bad"? IMHO yes. [John] > Does an idea having relatively low > quality differ radically from an idea > containing negative quality? IMHO no. [John] > does a high quality social value > mean one that gets ME rich and famous, or > does it mean one that makes > a society grow and prosper? IMHO the latter. [John] > Self-denial is something "everybody knows" is good. It's a value > which puts others before me. If “self-denial” means denying flourishing as an individual, then not good. If “self-denial” means prudently postponing instant gratification, then good. [John] > Putting others before me [Craig: “altruism”, not > “self-denial”] is a high quality social value, > for it puts the needs of the society above > the needs of the individual. But Adam Smith argues that society prospers more by each pursuing their self-interest (“invisible hand’). [John] > It's more moral for an > idea to kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea. But is it more moral for a bad idea to kill a good society than it is for a good society to kill a bad idea? Craig Craig Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
