hiya, i guess our respective takes are not mutually exclusive, rather they are complementary. i am not talking about abandoning technology. i am talking about empowering the individual. it is lot more work to deprogram an adult than not fuck up a child in the first place. but i am not saying abandon adults either!!! the work is worth doing...there is no other work *more* worth doing...hence zeitgeist addendum, la belle verte...and of course pirsig is a big puzzle piece: pirsig, ant, yourself, this list. alles klar? g
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > From: david buchanan <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MD] philosophy and education > To: [email protected] > Received: Tuesday, 4 August, 2009, 10:01 AM > > Gav said: > ...and of course it is not just education that suffers this > treatment. but as dave said: got to go to the roots - no use > holding on to something which is terminally ill. ...and this > is where i perhaps deviate from pirsig and dave (oh my > god!), at least a little. i do think that change will occur > at the academic level, but it will be slow. people like ant > and dave are pioneers here. but this isn't the root; these > are the topmost branches. > > > dmb says: > > I don't think the system or rather the rationality behind > it is terminally ill and there's reason to hope, even in the > academic world. I mean, it's worth pressing the idea again > that the MOQ is not opposed to rationality or intellect per > se. It has a genetic defect in it, as Pirsig puts it, and > that's why he goes all the way back to the ancients to > locate the source of the problem but the idea is to repair > the defect in those old forms of thought. > >From ZAMM, near the end of chapter 14: > "Well, it isn't just art and technology. It's a kind of a > noncoalescence between reason and feeling. What's wrong with > technology is that it's not connected in any real way with > matters of the spirit and of the heart. And so it does > blind, ugly things quite by accident and gets hated for > that. People haven't paid much attention to this before > because the big concern has been with food, clothing and > shelter for everyone and technology has provided these."But > now where these are assured, the ugliness is being noticed > more and more and people are asking if we must always suffer > spiritually and esthetically in order to satisfy material > needs. Lately it's become almost a national > crisis...antipollution drives, antitechnological communes > and styles of life, and all that."Both DeWeese and Gennie > have understood all this for so long there's no need for > comment, so I add, "What's emerging from the pattern of my > own life is the belief that the crisis is being caused by > the inadequacy o > f existing forms of thought to cope with the situation. It > can't be solved by rational means because the rationality > itself is the source of the problem. The only ones who're > solving it are solving it at a personal level by abandoning > `square' rationality altogether and going by feelings alone. > Like John and Sylvia here. And millions of others like them. > And that seems like a wrong direction too. So I guess what > I'm trying to say is that the solution to the problem isn't > that you abandon rationality but that you expand the nature > of rationality so that it's capable of coming up with a > solution." > > dmb continues: > > In fact, if the task is to expand rationality, I don't see > why one couldn't introduce that expanded rationality into > the academic world. It's hard to imagine a better place to > introduce such a thing. I tried to present it at the > skateboard park and at some birthday parties but somehow > that seemed inappropriate. One kid at the party > pointed out that philosophers do blind, ugly things (Kant's > aesthetics was his example) and then he popped my balloon. > The kid at the skateboard park flicked a lit cigarette at > me. Said I was in his way. Said he was trying to get some > exercise and that I should take up the peripatetic method of > contemplation. When I tried to explain the urgency of the > need for an expanded rationality, he grabbed his crotch and > said, "expand this, pal". That squirrel definitely got > around me. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get free photo software from Windows Live > http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
