Hi All, I should say something, I suppose, since I suggested the tread 'cos I was interested. Acces to my computer stopped me fromearlier responses and I do thank those who did, Ron, Steve etc. Many things have been said since and dmb has departed as well.
Re Dave: too much hay on the fork every time he responded,... too many quotes as well. I was more interested in dmb's interpretation than Pirsig's statements. A few lines would have sufficed but all we got were (repeated) static patterns...and loads of them. Still I am a bit sad he's gone. One of those 'pullers to stay in the path' people. But I thought about that today...how can you stray within the context of the MoQ? Either something has quality or (low) quality. The influence of Eastern mysticism on the development of the MoQ cannot be overestimated.Some of us do not realise this. The MoQ, as Pirsig has intended it, can be said to be an attempt at bridging the void between the East and the West. ( I gather this from Pirsig who has suggested that Northrop's The Meeting of East and West has greatly influenced him...and he is some sort of a pupil... still...). The notion of Quality, the Tao, the Void suggests a fundamental unity...an All from which it originates and to which we shall, inevitably return. Ham asked, at one stage what is the cause. Scientists would simply say: 'A quantum fluctuation!'. Are you happy with this Ham?? It was a quantum fluctuation arising from Quality, the Tao, the Void, the Vessel that contains Everything. Empty yet fertile. Are you happy with this Ham?? Of course not, because it does not fit your mind-set... which is some sort of value sensibility, proprietary agent who has to sense it first. Nothing will satisfy you outside of this mind- set. Again: what are you doing here on this MoQ discuss?? The All is perfect harmony...that which is a guiding light for Quality and that towards we, as patterns (individuated/ diferrentiated) of quality seek to accomplish. To fuse the parts back into the waves. Pirsig has gives us a tremendous push forward into the directions of waves by pointing towards the paradoxes (the shattered waves) and giving us an idea of how to go about fusing those parts back together again. He has given us examples of how to fuse age old paradoxes ... produced by a S/O division, which has given us a deeper knowledge (insight) of reality. The underlying theme of which is a restoration of harmony to that which has been shattered (by the quantum fluctuation). Platt doesn't want to hear of this...to him (and Ham) any sort of togetherness (expression of common roots, descendency/ sharing of origins through mythology, upbringing,thought patterns, belief, culture etc, etc) is communal (ism) , collectiv (ism), commun(ism). Anything that may bring us a little closer together as human becomings is rejected out of hand. Keep up the divisions, individual freedom (misunderstanding freedom... read Pirsig Platt and quote me the appropriate line...but, as a good Eastern influence...[as Pirsig suggests his words should be understood] also read between the lines!!!). Own up PLatt as you always have avoided...defending your selfrighteous, individualistic, self-assertive notions of freedom doing nothing more that inflating a leaky ego drawing everything unto itself and, failing keep on, screeming harder and harder and pointing the finger at anyone who may be responsible for deflating your ego because you have to find, by blaming everything and everybody else not thinking alike you, a culprit that keeps the ego pump down. And you say: All is One. Do you realise that this is the perfection of mystical communal thinking? I think the MoQ is a fusion. Not any one culture is perfect, some are more conducive to allowing DQ than other cultures...but here we are talking of DQ as GOOD ( sorry Platt and Ham!!)...as creating those conditions to set up deeper understandings... deepening our awareness...our consciousness of that which is reality. Consciousness is selective awareness. Selective awareness brought about by those processes Pirsig talks about in ZMM. Through Lila he has cleared a path for us all to tred and expand our own levels of consciousness. Pirsig never said: 'Follow me!!' The choice is up to us which path we want to follow...through the head, heart and hand or some other way. Of course the MoQ is Pirsig's philosophy...however one's ideas always stand upon the shoulders of someone else's. You cannot hold that against him or Jesus, or Einstein or the Buddha, Newton, Whitman, Bohm, Sidis, Muhammed, me, you or anyone else Kill all intellectual patterns (including the MoQ!!) completely, follow DQ and morality will be served. Thing is, when you die, you are the only one that dies... no one else is there for you or with you.. 'And in the end, the love you take , is equal to the love you make'. Love is All Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
