i think i see your point matt, perhaps we just need to reach a subtler idea of human agency - the tao te ching springs to mind - wu wei etc because what i am getting at is far from being a renunciant - all is perfect - position; rather it is the idea that one can perfect oneself through practice, thought, diligence, and in so doing become a better and better vehicle for DQ. externalising agency - me doing something to the world to make it more perfect - this is topsy -turvy. perfect oneself and this perfection radiates out naturally, effortlessly.
--- On Mon, 28/9/09, Matt Kundert <[email protected]> wrote: From: Matt Kundert <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] Boromir's Journey To: [email protected] Received: Monday, 28 September, 2009, 12:10 PM matt said: and, along a different angle, not being able to actually effect a perfection--your point--breeds leibnizian thoughts of theodicy: this world is the best of all possible worlds, which voltaire laughed at as absurd and the rest of us should look at as a simplisitic apology of worseness that ameliorates the impetus to change it. gav said: not necessarily. only from a SOM viewpoint (effector and effected, to use your terminology). the perfection of DQ (to return to the jargon de rigeur) underpins the MOQ. it is the source and apogee. from the mystical perspective of the MOQ therefore perfection is a truism. matt: sure--not necessarily. but neither steve nor i nor anyone properly anti-somist are talking about eternal, written-into-the-lining-of-the-world necessities. what steve and i are enunciating are our perception of likelihoods, given whatever appreciation of our experience and of history we've garnered. in this case--sure, a conceptual truism, but i tend to think that, just like leibniz trying to fit evil into the truism of the perfection of god, i tend to think it's best to stand aside from thinking of anything as a "perfection," as opposed to a "perfecting," a good sense which can be--but is not the only--sense to be attached to "betterness" being "perfection." just like my problems with the metaphor of system, i tend to think that it is perhaps best to lay off the drawing of circles around the whole of reality, which i tend to think the notion of "perfection" tends to do but, that's just my perception of the value of the rhetorical map matt _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
