Andre: The inorganic level is patterned > according to the laws of physics, the organic level is patterned > according to the laws of nature etc etc. this seems to me to be a > participatory process of DQ/SQ not intellect 'on its own' (otherwise > you'd get into an idealist frame n'est pas?).
Bo: Excellent! Ron: To verify, you both consider DQ/SQ as "substance" which exists independantly of thoughts about it. Like patterns of atoms in a field of energy and it is this FACT that supplies the building blocks for inorganic, organic, social and intellectual. I ask what is the difference between this interpretation and the classical physics of scientific realism which states that awareness is composed of atomic chemistry? Bo I'm not out to kick your ass, but I am out to prove that your interpretation is only a small part of a larger MoQ concept. You take an example of how evolution may be understood better in terms of value and turn it into holy dogmatic gospel. ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:18:17 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Quality is Appreciation in Value Hi John (Andre and Ron) 29 Sep. Bodvar to Andre and Ron: Andre had said:: > > > ?I am beginning to wonder to what extent the intellectual level > > > dominates the play in patterning the undifferentiated? Just > > > laterally drifting. Bodvar: > > Intellect is? the highest and best "patterner". John jumping in > I say the highest and best patterner is the biological, Biocentrism. > Some revere the social level, which has all the power to actually get > things done. Look, a MOQ tenet is that the lower the level the firmer the latch and that "existence" will drop to the next lower if the higher slips. The social the safe haven if intellect gives way and biology still firmer. Hopefully it will never be an option, but if an asteroid hits the earth and causes extinction of the humans and thus the intellectual and social levels biology will be the only one left (except the inorganic). Anyway the point is that intellect is the highest and best although not the firmest level. > Some say the since everything at its root is made of non-organic > patterns and everything returns eventually to this level, it is > actually the boss of all the others. That's right! > The only reason you say reason is you have reasoned this from your > reasoning. ????????? > AND, I think I see more of the elephant than any other blind man out > there, because my level can beat up your level. You must first understand the MOQ fundamentals before commenting. Back to kindergarten you go ;-) > This chaos is why I deem a hierarchical interpretation or the levels > as ridiculous. Ditto. > It's like saying an F chord is higher and better than a C chord. Sure > there's a chord progression, just as there is an evolution of levels, > but that progression is nothing so static as a simple straightline > hierarchy of "higher and better" value. I thought you said a T-Ford ;-) > An "ascending chord" of music is progressing toward something, but > what its progressing toward is higher quality in its entire process, > not progressing toward some chords which are intrinsically better than > others. Well, I hope you regard modern, technological (intellectual ) existence as better than the Stone Age (social) one? Once the Quality context the progress is obvious. > Quality is not subjugation and dominance; Quality is harmonic. As said the DQ/SQ context is not revealed until the MOQ is accepted. While static intellect - as SOM - ruled it "knew" nothing about being a quality level, merely subjugating what it was regarded bad and pursuing what it was regarded good. That went for all level as Andre says below.. Andre > You see, I thought there were five moral systems within the MoQ > 'connecting' the four levels, each of which has very little to say to > the other (they are 'discrete'), they have their own agenda, and do > not understand eachother's 'language'. The inorganic level is patterned > according to the laws of physics, the organic level is patterned > according to the laws of nature etc etc. this seems to me to be a > participatory process of DQ/SQ not intellect 'on its own' (otherwise > you'd get into an idealist frame n'est pas?). Excellent! Ron says: > In fact it simply furthers SOM and it's dogma as absolute by stating > that evolution is the truth and Pirsigs interpetation (via Bo) of it > is reality. It goes against the entire theme of RMP's work, that > scientific dogma is an illusion and not realizing this creates > paradox, ie:stuckness, gumption traps, blind spots. Never missing a chance to kick Bo's ass. Bodvar. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
