On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:18 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: Look, a MOQ tenet is that the lower the level the firmer the latch and > that "existence" will drop to the next lower if the higher slips. The > social > the safe haven if intellect gives way and biology still firmer.
Well some of what I'm disparaging here Bo, is a rigid interpretation of the levels. I think the great value the MoQ provides is the analytic knife dividing up the elements. The next step of making these levels into simple 1-2-3-4 progressional hierarchical metaphysics... I'm not so keen. And if your stipulation that this is a basic tenet, then I guess I'm taking on a basic tenet. So to untangle this, just give me a good example of an intellectual pattern slipping. I mean, when a man dies, his brain stops. He doesn't go from the intellectual to the social. He goes from the intellectual to the barely biological and soon inorganic. > Hopefully it > will never be an option, but if an asteroid hits the earth and causes > extinction of the humans and thus the intellectual and social levels > biology will be the only one left (except the inorganic). Anyway the > point is that intellect is the highest and best although not the firmest > level. > yeah, rocks seem pretty firm. That's why they should be "on top". sheesh John before] > Some say the since everything at its root is made of non-organic > > patterns and everything returns eventually to this level, it is > > actually the boss of all the others. > > Bo] > That's right! > > John] Ok then, we're in agreement. From now on, rocks are in charge. Bo] You must first understand the MOQ fundamentals before commenting. > Back to kindergarten you go ;-) > > no problem. Kindergarten is where all the fun is. actually, preschoolers are where the action is. I got a chance to babysit a room full of preschoolers for 4 hours and its helluva fun ride. I highly recommend getting a chance to play with a room full of young humans who haven't had soma school foisted off on them yet. John] > > This chaos is why I deem a hierarchical interpretation or the levels > > as ridiculous. > > B0] > Ditto. > John] you say ditto, but you also want to send me back to kindergarten. does this mean you want to go to kindergarten also? Bo] > > Well, I hope you regard modern, technological (intellectual ) existence > as better than the Stone Age (social) one? Once the Quality context > the progress is obvious. > > John] Ok that's a big set up. Because the Stone Age is a creation of your cultural mythos. An earlier eye-opening discussion in my life was from my philosophical mentor, Sessions, who pointed out some research that "primitive" man worked an average of 13 hours a week for his sustenance, whereas factory workers of the modern age have to do more AND if they are lucky, get a couple of weeks a year to fish and hunt (the "work", incidentally of this stupid primitive that you modern man disparages). The richness of an society is not so easy to judge from a materialistic metaphysical distance and I don't accept your assertion that Quality follows from skyscrapers alone. You could make an argument for a more dynamic society with more choices, but when most of the choices are bad and compared with the need for a basic life of being in direct connection with one's environmental context - non-MEDIATED - is not a facile judgement based upon your intellectualization. oh jeez that was an awkward sentence. And I'm too damn rushed this morn to go back and revise it. I'm just gonna move to the end and get to my chores. > > Ron says: > > In fact it simply furthers SOM and it's dogma as absolute by stating > > that evolution is the truth and Pirsigs interpetation (via Bo) of it > > is reality. It goes against the entire theme of RMP's work, that > > scientific dogma is an illusion and not realizing this creates > > paradox, ie:stuckness, gumption traps, blind spots. > > Never missing a chance to kick Bo's ass. > > Bodvar. He makes a really good point; take it like a man, Bo. Metaphysics ain't for sissies. John Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
