On 11/17/09 11:08 PM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip> You're wrong that I deny motion or change in the empirical reality that we call existence. Pirsig's levels are a pleasant euphemism that has no special significance for me. I see no objective evidence to support the theory that "higher levels" (social and intellectual) dominate "lower levels" (biological and inorganic), or that evolution is a progression toward some ideal Goodness. Nor do I understand any philosophical advantage in arbitrarily dividing the universe into a system of levels. On the other hand, I see much to be gained in understanding experiential existence as an awareness/otherness dichotomy. For one thing, it places the individual self distinctly in the realm of subjectivity, allowing the objective world to be recognized as a value construct of the self. It supports the principle of man's autonomy and freedom on which the enlightened nations of the world were founded. And it offers a plausible purpose for man's existence, namely, the realization of essential value, which by the power of his reasoning can direct himself and his fellow man toward a more authentic and moral society. Best regards, Ham Hi Ham and all, How are awareness/otherness conceptualized? If in experiential existence there is 1 in awareness and 0 in otherness change is indeterminate. If there is 1 in awareness and 1 in otherness what is the distinction between them to make them a dichotomy? How can I conceptualize a difference? I can only conceptualize 1 and there is no change in my awareness of otherness. Joe > > On 11/17/09 6:56 PM, Joseph Maurer wrote: > >> Hi Ham and all, >> >> In the face of undefined gravity it is not a huge leap of faith to >> analogize the experience of a rock falling, or atoms in fixed orbits. >> Essence on the other hand clouds the perceived reality by >> mistakenly denying motion in reality apart from itself. Imho >> Pirsig correctly identifies motion in the levels of evolution. >> Evolution is a simple, brilliant explanation for levels in existence. >> From that start it is relatively easy to comprehend the one and the many. >> >> Essence on the other hand is tied to divinity and is totally >> incomprehensible while resting on the shoulders of an author >> who proposes that evolution is not a change in existence, >> but simply independent nodules of essence. > > You're right that it doesn't take a huge leap of faith -- or much > intellect -- to imagine a falling rock or atoms in orbit having experience > and making choices. Such "analogies" are not philosophy, however. They're > childish notions that resurrect the animistic mythology of our forbearers. > > You're wrong that I deny motion or change in the empirical reality that we > call existence. Pirsig's levels are a pleasant euphemism that has no > special significance for me. I see no objective evidence to support the > theory that "higher levels" (social and intellectual) dominate "lower > levels" (biological and inorganic), or that evolution is a progression > toward some ideal Goodness. Nor do I understand any philosophical advantage > in arbitrarily dividing the universe into a system of levels. > > On the other hand, I see much to be gained in understanding experiential > existence as an awareness/otherness dichotomy. For one thing, it places the > individual self distinctly in the realm of subjectivity, allowing the > objective world to be recognized as a value construct of the self. It > supports the principle of man's autonomy and freedom on which the > enlightened nations of the world were founded. And it offers a plausible > purpose for man's existence, namely, the realization of essential value, > which by the power of his reasoning can direct himself and his fellow man > toward a more authentic and moral society. > > Best regards, > Ham > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
