Greetings Andre, What is the M in MoQ and SOM represent? Doesn't it represent a formal model of reality? Most people do not have an acknowledged metaphysics. Philosophers of varying stripes look for a model of reality, but the model is quite separate from the experience. So when I talk about the MoQ it is as a model. So when you suggest we are 'bathing in Quality', that's a poetic description of the experience, and I quite agree with it as a poetic description.
As a formal model for the MoQ, I think there should be a fifth-level, a Quality Level, emerging from the fourth, Intellectual Level. I think as a model, the Quality(DQ/sq) paradigm represents a change greater than that that separates the intellectual level from the social level. For me the Quality level is unpatterned experience and patterned experience, maybe for some quantum physicists it represents these two composed in mathmatical terms. Certainly not all, because I've heard too many physicists cling to a subject/object point-of-view, but others are on their way. Read some of the books written of the dialogues between the Dalai Lama and scientists at the Mind and Life Institute. A Quality level would not be a fully formed level, but an newly emerging level, a beginnging-to-form level. Seems to me there would be still much attachment and struggle between the Intellectual Level and the Quality Level, and why our talk of MoQ is intellectual while the model represents the Quality Level. For me, the Social and Intellectual levels are subject/object levels. The Social Level holds this understanding unconsciously in habit, ritual, memories. The Intellectual Level has consciously formalized the subject/object point-of-view, and it can thus be said to be a Subject/Object Metaphysics (SOM), and thinking that there is an independent external world to control, the patterns in the Intellectual Level represents a suppression of the subjective portion to wrestle from Nature (the objective portion) its secrets. Most of the patterns that comprise our thoughts are of the subject-object variety, and why there is such confusion trying to loosen ourselves from its grips. But you are correct, 'The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name'. So for me the Quality Level is unpatterned experience and patterned experiece, and none of the MoQ talk. Will it become more, or more for me? I do not know. I know nothing... Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andre Broersen Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] British Emergentism Marsha to Andre: I very much agree with Bo that the Intellectual Level is comprised of subject/object patterns, and I agree that there should be an emerging Quality Level above the Intellectual Level. Andre: Hello Marsha. I am probably daft but I do not understand this. What do you mean by 'Quality Level'? Aren't we bathing in Quality as it is? It reminds me of the suggestion: we are all enlightened already but we do not realise it. Also, in the MoQ the 'levels' are said to be 'discrete'. Can Quality be this? Can Quality be 'levelled'? I agree with you that the 'MoQ is an intellectual static pattern of value'. As soon as you think,write,say,name Quality it has become static. . 'The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name' Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
