Hi Marsha, Yea I get that. Be careful however, because as the Tao states, The one gives rise to the two which gives rise to the four which gives rise to the ten thousand things. I am paraphrasing of course but then everything I have read about it, is paraphrasing, because I do not read Chinese.
Mark On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:54:04 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: From: MarshaV <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Date: December 3, 2009 1:54:04 PM PST To: [email protected] Hi Mark, I'm sorry, the word 'nature' had me confused. There is Quality, unpatterned experience and patterned experience; I am not other than Quality. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of markhsmit Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Hi Marsh, I'm not sure what your understanding is. You answered my question of a previous post, that of the relationship between Nature and Quality. In your opinion they are not the same. The point I was trying to make is that I do not agree with the notion that there is Nature or Quality that is separate from us. Our intelligence is a small portion of Nature, which makes Nature intelligent. If we have purpose, or an objective, then Nature does. I believe in the Buddhist tradition, that the "I" does not exist. However, I typically use I according to its accepted understanding as my brain/body. Same with We. Yes we are static patterns in the same way a tornado is. That was my intent. Mark On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:25:38 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: From: MarshaV <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Date: December 3, 2009 1:25:38 AM PST To: [email protected] Hi Mark, I do not recollect 'nature' being used as a synonym for 'Quality'. 'Nature' and 'We' area both static patterns of value, and I understand neither to be objects or objective. And also I find the singular 'I' and the collective 'We' to both be anomolies. Have I misunderstood the intent of your post? Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of markhsmit Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Hi Marsha, If I may provide a perhaps unwanted intrusion with an answer. Of course it is an objective nature. We are part of it and we claim to be objective. We are not an anomaly, something separate from Nature, we are Nature. We are proof that Nature is objective. Mark On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:51:46 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: From: MarshaV <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Date: December 2, 2009 5:51:46 AM PST To: [email protected] Greetings Ron, Do you mean an objective nature at work? Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of X Acto Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost Mark, I guess suicideal tendancies are nature at work, hell everything is nature at work. Perhaps I get the absurd idea of conservation from working in civil engineering where the illusion is by proper design and resource management more people may live in an area for longer periods of time and sustain a comfortable standard of living conditions. You seem to prefer the days of dumping raw sewage in the streets and the widespread plague of diseases that accompany it. Yes, environmentalists are typically assholes. Arlo and I acknowledged this sad aspect too. They go after the little stuff and let the big problems walk on by. close minded self righteous idiots.. ..But if all you want to do is get yer kicks before this shithouse goes up in flames, then you must not have any children. -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: markhsmit <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 11:34:55 PM Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost [Mark] I would tend to disagree with you X. Environmentalists not only think that things man made are different from the environment, but they believe that man has control over it. Humans will rise and fall just like the dinosaurs, and do you know who is responsible for that? Not Humans, but the environment. We are nature at work. [X Acto] Well ya see Arlo, the thread line is "SOM's defect comes home to roost" SOM's defect is that it thinks humans are sepreate and distinct from their environment....now....environmentalism goes against the grain of SOM since it asserts humans are indeed part of the environment and we better manage our practices better or we're going to poison ourselves with our own waste, the only way I can figure environmentalism can be deadly to humans is if it is taken to extreme ie, killing humans to save the environment which is just as ludicris as exhausting all resources and poisoning ourselves. Platt may have an economic gripe that environmentalism impinges on capitalistic profit but environmentalism opens up a greater diversity in the market place by creating a new marketable industry that creates wealth. Frankly, I really do not see how one can square this up. Dishonesty, perhaps. But dishonesty in the same vein in that our parents or the church lied to us to keep us out of trouble, for our own well being. If he really wants to pick knits. But that brings up the the question of what is true? since there is no objective truth, what exactly does he base his claims on, the willful falsification of data? Gov. been doing that since the dawn of time. He demands honosty from Gov. now? the Gov. lies! , of all possible outcomes I would think, lying to us in sake preserving our world and our species is a lie I can live with. Just do not see the downside, unless Platt likes soylent green. ----- Original Message ---- From: Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 10:26:13 AM Subject: Re: [MD] SOM's defect comes home to roost [Ron] What are the deadly consequences of environmentalism? [Arlo] Haven't you been following the "news"? Death camps! Enslavement! The End of Liberty! Tyranny! One World Guvmint! Dogs and cats living together!! Soylent Green is people!!! 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