>
>
> "My personal feeling is that this is how any further improvement of the
> world will be done: by individuals making Quality decisions and that´s all.
>

Well personal feelings aside, we know intellectually that the only way the
world ever improves is by communal action.  There isn't a darn thing that
changes when one lone individual makes Quality decisions, unless those
decisions redirect a social relationship towards Quality.  The society can
be quite small, but world-class improvements have to be performed by
world-class societies.



> God, I don´t want to have any more enthusiasm for big programs full of
> social planning for big masses of people that leave individual Quality
> out.


Yeah, me neither.  But sometimes you can't help yourself.  Enthusiasm
bubbles up from beyond, evidently.  Where does enthusiasm come from?  Same
place as hypothesis's I guess, and over which we have as little control.



> These can be left alone for a while.


Great, sure. you bet.  How long?  Forever and ever?  I mean, this was
written when?  I remember there was a lot of this enthusiasm floating around
back in the 70's for big social programs, mostly leading nowhere.  So does
that mean we can just do away with it completely?  Because it seems to me,
Mr. Pirsig, that since those days your individualistic stance has gained
wide hold, and the concommitant drop in communal interaction has just driven
people to ever more isolation and getting their cultural needs met through
mediated-techno placebos which makes 'em more isolated, which drives them
more inward, which....



> There´s a place for them



I definitely agree!



> but
> they´ve got to be built on a foundation of Quality within the individuals
> involved.



I agree there too.  But since that is an individualistic effort - Quality
within individuals involved - it makes the whole thing hopeless because of
the problems I outlined above.  I mean, I'm perfectly content to stand back
and let individuals evolve their own Quality.  But the dark powers in charge
seem to want to degrade individuals in order to get them ignorant and
pliable and fond of McDonalds and happy in WalMart.  So the bad guys recruit
and the good guys shut up.  How long do you think this pattern can continue
before we're all totally screwed?



> We´ve had that individual Quality in the past, exploited it as a
> natural resource without knowing it, and now it´s just about depleted.
> Everyone´s just about out of gumption. And I think it´s about time to
> return to the rebuilding of this American resource...individual worth.
>


There used to be a great pride in the basis of morality for capitalism.  Our
enemy,the  godless communists, failed, we claimed, through exactly this
means of moral superiority.  Adam Smith's theories only work when populated
by moral people.  Morals were our strength, and you'd think a book that
enquired into them would be a valuable resource, but unfortunately, Rigel
had a point when he claimed that freeing up people to think about their
morals and choose them has had some surprisingly negative effects.  Mostly
what they decide makes a Quality decision, is that which rewards the
egoistic selfish desires.

I don't blame ZAMM for that movement, I blame the social media (tv) not the
intellectual (books).




> There are political reactionaries who´ve been saying something close to
> this for years. I´m not one of them, but to the extent they´re talking
> about
> real individual worth and not just an excuse for giving more money to
> the rich, they´re right. We do need a return to individual integrity, self-
> reliance and old-fashioned gumption. We really do."
>


This gumption and real individual worth are created by interaction with
community - a social context and by stories told to the young.

The current generation has been given over to central programming from
birth, and since this generation can't even imagine the world you and I are
old enough to remember, and since this generation is suckled at an
electronic teat that has NO motivation for teaching self-reliance, integrity
or gumption, (who'd buy cosmetics for men if we did that?) I'd say we need
new words to help us in our crucial hour.


> "Self-reliance." Not a word you often hear from the ruling elite
> (Hollywood, politicians, academics and the major media) these days.
>
> Platt


 There ya go.  Platt's got it exactly right.  Just add in  big business
board rooms as part of the evil consortium, and you've got the whole
picture.   If you describe Liberal and Conservative, I see a two-headed
giant that every time  one is attacked,  the other just gets stronger and
the giant gets bigger.

John Carl the fan of the Grinch
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