Hi Bo, Don't get too frustrated, we are getting somewhere. I know exactly what you are talking about. I am trying to hear it in different words. All this usage of Pirsig's words is not getting MoQ anywhere. Objective knowledge the O of SOM, Yes I get that. Turn away from objective knowledge. Sometime I feel that you are the newbie and still stuck in Pirsig's metaphors.
Science has no more shortcomings than a belief in a deity. It is all the same thing. You can use scientific words such as organic or biological or social or intellect. You can also use a bunch of other words. The use of science does not make it any more important or significant. What you are describing has been said for thousands of years. Wrapping it up in 21st century philosophy babble does not change it. Buddhism is all about release from subject object metaphysics there is no subject. Do you get it now? Take a break from the dogma of MoQ and visit a few other places. You are stuck. If you keep wrapping yourself in this stuff, you will not get anywhere. Give me another word for Quality. Give it a try. IMHO of course, Mark On Dec 16, 2009, at 11:55:44 PM, [email protected] wrote: From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 and Climate. Date: December 16, 2009 11:55:44 PM PST To: [email protected] On 16 Dec 2009 at 20:24, markhsmit wrote: > > On Dec 16, 2009, at 1:45:58 PM, [email protected] wrote: > In many places Pirsig uses the term knowledge as synonymous with > intellect, but "ability to know" makes me a little uneasy. Stone Age > (social level) humans knew to perfection what was necessary for their > existence, but this (both dextrous skill and the "how to") knowledge > I relegate to intelligence. By knowledge in connection with intellect > we mean something grander, the objective, scientific truth as > contrasted to the subjective "I just wish - or want - this to be > true". Don't start about science's limitations, all this is part of > the MOQ's scope . > > Hi Skutvik, > Interesting that you would think the current knowledge as objective. > It is quite clear to me that it is all subjective. That you would > claim it to be objective belies the depth of hypnosis you are in. Christ Smit, this was what I warned against, stop pointing to intellect's (SOM's) shortcomings, this the MOQ knows much better than you would dream of. I described what Intellect - from its own premises - is, namely OBJECTIVE KNOWLEDGE. I'm in no hypnosis, stop acting the wise guy and try to understand. God, must this procedure be gone through for every newbie with his own axe to grind. > If it is objective, then why doesn't a tree know it? Science is a > creation of the human brain, nothing more. There is no objectivity in > language, in communication, all of it is subjective agreement, no > different from a barking dog. Yes it has meaning to us, but that is > about it. A barking dog has meaning to a dog. It is time you break > this cage you are in. The human appreciation of existence is Quality > itself, nothing more. I can see that you wish to be at the top of the > heap. But it doesn't take much to see through all of that. You seem to > be cast in a spell. All of it may have meaning to you, in the name of > Pirsig, but there is so much more. You are just scratching the surface. > There are many trails, MoQ is one of them. I know you believe Quality > to be some large encompassing absolute truth, but it is a bubble of > truth amongst many other bubbles. It is sustained by convention > within, but not from without. Try as I may, I can see that this bubble > will be hard to break, but fear not, there is nothing to fear. Open > your mind. Yes, all these things I wrestled with half a quarter of a century ago, they can't be reconciled from intellect's (as SOM) premises. Then I came across Pirsigs ideas and everything crystallized into a different pattern. I thought you interested in this. Go join Ham. Bodvar Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
