Hi Krimel, It seems to me that Pirsig is trying to describe his perception of reality in the best way he can. If there are flaws in the logic, or mistakes in known science, it doesn't mean that he is wrong, it means that he hasn't explained it very well. Words are like a net, and reality like the ocean. When one tries to pick up the ocean with a net it always fails. Rather than state that Pirsig is mistaken, ask him to explain it in another way. Get enough different explanations together and perhaps understanding results. This is why dialogue is always more successful than the written word, just ask Socrates. Mark [Mary] I would like to revisit something brought up last Thursday in this thread (apologies for running behind, but I've read all the follow up since, and don't see this addressed). Objections have been made to Pirsig's Baggini interview, and particularly the quote below:
BAGGINI: One final question about aspects of the MOQ that might help explain academic resistance to it. LILA has a remarkably wide scope and as a result it often deals with, dismisses or solves ideas rather brusquely. For example, at one point you say "[The theory of evolution] goes into many volumes about how the fittest survive but never once goes into the question of why." (p144) Most biologists would see that as blatantly untrue, and that furthermore, if you think the question of why the fittest survive hasn't been answered by the theory of evolution, you just haven't understood it. Now it may well be that you have responses to this and can explain why it is you think the question of why the fittest survive hasn't really been addressed. But if you present your thesis in this telescopic, sweeping way, surely you can't complain if informed critics dismiss you. You can't expect them to take it on trust that behind these assertions are more careful, fuller arguments that justify the claims. PIRSIG: That line was an integral part of an entire chapter on the subject and thus cannot be called telescopic. I would answer that biologists who think my question doesn't understand the theory of evolution are biologists who do not understand the difference between "how" and "why." The answers they give for "why" are usually "competitive advantage" or "survival of the fittest." But if you look closely you will see that these are not scientific terms. "Fittest" is a subjective term. It exists only in the mind of a scientific observer. It isn't out there in the nature he observes. The same is true of "advantage." Ask a biologist who thinks my question doesn't understand the theory of evolution, to define in exact scientific terms the meaning of these evaluative words. If he takes time to do so I predict he will give up or he will come up with nonsense or he will find himself drifting eventually toward the solutions arrived at by the Metaphysics of Quality. ----- [Krimel] As for the questions How and Why I think the difference is between questions that can be meaningfully answered and questions that can't. Pirsig answer to Baggini is really just demonstrates why Baggini had to ask the question in the first place. Pirsig make no pretext at being a biologist but when some one piles up enough misstatements like this, it does tend to detract from his credibility in other areas as well. I for one am eager to hear from Dr. McWatt on this. My question for him was: I notice you avoided my question about the Baggini interview. Does that mean we are in agreement, Pirsig blew it? Weren't you the moderator or e-mail gatekeeper on that exchange? Did Baggini really give Pirsig a pass and ask no follow-up question or was he denied the opportunity? Ant? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
