On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:26:01 AM, Mary <[email protected]> wrote: Hello John!
[I said] the Intellectual Level is a STATIC Level. It is not the be-all end-all of reality. Pirsig says this. [then you said] If by "STATIC" we mean "definitionaly bound", well I simply disagree. Where do you draw the upper boundary of intellectual patterning? Because once you get it bound, you talk about it, objectify and use it conceptually in further formulations which grow the old boundaries. ----- I think you can draw the upper boundary of intellectual patterning at the point where the subject meets the object - where the subjective rubber meets the objective road. I think the limit of the intellectual level stops at the point where we try to conceptualize anything in terms other than subjects and objects. This is why I am almost 99% in Bodvar's Intellectual Level = SOM camp at this point. Give me one example where you are able to conceptualize anything without presupposing a viewer and a viewed and I will probably be able to say that is an example of transcending the Intellectual Level to enter the realm of pre-intellectual awareness - otherwise known as Quality. What do you think? Mary Hi Mary, What you ask is a meaningless question by definition. Conceptualization requires an objective view. You are asking to conceptualize without conceptualizing. The zen method does what you are asking in terms of pre-intellectual awareness. It does this though mindfullness. Others have likened this to living in the NOW or moment, which I believe misses the whole point. By my interpretation of your analogy of Quality, Zen masters are fully aware of Quality, but they do not call it that because it would be giving it a subjective stance. What do you think? IMHO, of course, Mark Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
